Episode 05 - We F'ing Love Roller Coasters! Ft. Tyrell

Show notes from the hosts:
The topic for today is about the first 6 months of sobriety, the trials and errors of what that looks like, our emotions as we go through that period, and some tools we have used  along the way. In this episode we are joined by Tyrell! He took his last drink in July 2022. He's 32 y/o and lives in Colorado and currently works as a carpenter.
We discuss our beginnings on this journey, and how we all met through another fantastic podcast community called Recovery Elevator with host Paul Churchill.
Eric and Taylor banter back and fourth and introduce Tyrell
Tyrell is introduced and welcomed by the guys. They discuss Recovery Elevator podcast and how that was the vehicle in which they met.
Tyrell discusses how tracker for sobriety actually set him up for failure. Taylor would reset his tracker anytime he would relapse.  Eric discusses how many of the trackers do different kinds of tracking such as percentages.   
Tyrell spoke about how playing guitar in place of going to the liquor store.
Eric discusses feeling in the first 6 months and the roller coaster that they are.
Tyrell talks about the fear of the unknown.
Taylor discusses how listening to people in early sobriety helps to remind us about those early days.  Yes, men have feelings and are allowed to be vulnerable.
Tyrell decided to seek counseling this time around. Professional help is important.
Taylor discusses his Employment Assistance Program (EAP)
Eric talks about community and independence in recovery
The point is to grow in Sobriety
Taylor introduces segment on tools. Tyrell talks about how cravings will pass, if you give it time or space.
Taylor talks about "playing the tape forward". You are becoming aware
Eric tries to create space to look at reason for trigger
Tyrell talks about tools are interlaced
Taylor discusses accountability. Fear of letting go of our addiction can bring us a crossroads of our life.  So Taylor's tool is  balance
Mental, Physical and Spiritual are important to balance ourselves in sobriety
Eric makes a point of "Burn the Ships"-letting people know that you don't drink

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FB: Eric Andrew Coaching
Eric's website:ericandrew

Transcript

S&S Episode 05

Taylor - Host: [00:00:00] Sober and shameless episode.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the show. I'm Taylor Klinger. And I'm Eric. Andrew. And this is Sober and Shameless shedding the Shame, the podcast that flips the script on what it means to live a sober life in each 

Eric - Host: episode of Sober and Shame. The host, along with the occasional guests, will pick a topic to shed their shame about, explore ideas on how to grow through those challenges and provide organic, lighthearted, honest, and unprofessional commentary about their experiences with addiction, strength through recovery and life and sobriety.

Hey. Hey. It is Friday once again. How you doing Taylor? Hey 

Taylor - Host: dude, how are you, man? Happy. Happy Friday. 

Eric - Host: Yeah. Yeah, I'm doing well. I got my heat fixed. Ooh, that was 

Taylor - Host: a big deal in the middle of winter. 

Eric - Host: [00:01:00] Well, yeah, and here's the thing. New Jersey this year is having a shit winter. And what I mean by shit winner is we ain't getting one.

Right. I've heard and we've. Maybe a handful of days that have been what you would call cold. Right? Uh, and this happened to be one of those handful of days, , I lucked out, it was one degree Friday night into Saturday and my heat went out and I didn't get it fixed until Monday. So Oh wow. Three days. Thank God I had a friend that 

Taylor - Host: had a couch.

So you actually ended up having to leave your house for a couple of days. It was that cold. Well, to yeah, 

Eric - Host: to sleep, right? Like I came back here and I did all the stuff I normally have to do and I probably could have toughed it out here. I, you know, ironically, I ended up buying myself a space heater, so now I have one.

So if this ever happens again where it's just the heat going out, I'll throw that baby on. I won't worry about it for a. . 

Taylor - Host: Well, I'm glad you got the heat fixed man, because if I'm counting my days right here, aren't I flying out to see you in like, in like two days? 

Eric - Host: Yeah. Yeah, man. So [00:02:00] that's why I had to, uh, get that 

Taylor - Host: heat fixed and I think.

While I'm out there, you and I are going to be recording our next episode. Yeah. And I believe it might be somebody's birthday. Am I, am 

Eric - Host: I right on that, Eric? Um, you might be right on that. Ooh. You might be somebody we know very dearly is gonna be four years old. 

Taylor - Host: Wow. Four years old of recovery. I think that individual is gonna have to come on here and tell us how the hell they did 

Eric - Host: that.

Probably the, the only problem in all that is he don't know how the hell he did it. No, I just . 

Taylor - Host: Well, before we get on too much of the excitement for next episode, we have a very exciting episode for everybody today. We are so excited to have a guest. On our show again for episode five. He is from Colorado.

He's 32 [00:03:00] years old. He works as a carpenter and has been sober for six months now. Here to shoot the shit with us today. Tyrell, what's going on, man? Hey guys. 

Eric - Host: How's it going? Hey, Tyrell. Hey, Eric. How are you, Taylor? Good. Good. I always feel like when you do that, Taylor, that we're doing an episode of the dating game or something.

You just need the music in the background where you're introducing him? 

Taylor - Host: Well, no, wait a minute. We should like totally cover Tyrell in like, you know, like make him like just a silhouette and then Yeah, , maybe we should do this moving forward. Yeah, like maybe we should actually like, have our guests where, where like you pick the guest and I don't know who it is.

and then they have to like wear like a cover the entire episode and I have to talk to them and they have like a weird muffled voice or something. I don't know. It could be funny. 

Eric - Host: We, yeah, it could be. I, I think they don't, they have the, so what is it called? The Masked Singer or something like that. Right.

We could have the mask 

Taylor - Host: sober 

Eric - Host: guest person [00:04:00] mask sober guest. Yeah. We're taking a lot of Tyrell's time up here. Just goof. Six months, man. That's awesome. Good, good. Congratulations. Yeah, thank 

Taylor - Host: you dude. That is so awesome. And honestly, we're happy to have you on the show. We couldn't be more excited. I actually met Tyrell out in the middle of the woods.

Is that right? Tyro . 

Tyrell - Guest: Uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's the first place I ever met you. I was out in the middle of the woods. I got 

Taylor - Host: How many years ago was that now? 

Tyrell - Guest: Uh, two, three, I think that was in 2020. Sometime in the summer of 2020. I think it was 

Taylor - Host: 2020. Yeah, it was, uh, it was on a recovery retreat. And a little brief story on that.

There's this recovery group. They do an amazing job. They're just fantastic. They have an amazing podcast. So we're gonna plug that real quick before we get into our episode today. Recovery Elevator by Mr. Paul Churchill. When I first got sober, my. Recovery program consisted of two [00:05:00] things, working a 12 step program and listening to episode zero all the way through to like episode like 250 or something at the time of recovery elevator.

And after one year of sobriety, I decided to join their online Facebook group. and test out what that world was like because they're very big on connection and developing meaningful relationships. Well, when I joined that, it actually introduced me to Eric, the co-host, and as well, that same day, I actually hosted a video message to the group just to kind of shed that shame and get myself out there and, Paul actually responded back to me and said, Hey man, I'm actually going on a camping trip here in about like 20 minutes.

Do you want to go? And since I'm in this world of being uncomfortable and making new life decisions, and I had a year of sobriety under my belt, I said, you know what? Screw it. Let's go [00:06:00] on that trip. I not only met my future wife, but more importantly, I met Ty. I think, 

Tyrell - Guest: I think you may wanna 

Eric - Host: flip the script.

Cassie, I hope you're not listening right now. . 

Taylor - Host: So I, I mean, enough about blabbing for me. I just had to do that quick little sidebar to catch some listeners up on exactly what we're talking about with our relationships here. But I can tell you that that weekend, obviously it was very impactful for me. I ended up meeting a lot.

People that ended up becoming very fast friends for me and Eric and I remained friends on the Facebook group for a very long time before we actually ended up meeting in person. But I can tell you for a fact, if you've not heard Paul Churchill's recovery Elevator, please head on over. Listen to the podcast.

There's over 400 episodes of fantastic Content. 

Eric - Host: Yeah. Yeah. And there's uh, two episodes that have both of. Not together, but we were both interviewed on the podcast, so Oh yeah, that's right. I, you were a onesie, I think, for your 

Taylor - Host: [00:07:00] podcast, right? I did wear a onesie in my podcast episode, . Yeah, that's right.

Myself. I was interviewed by Odette. I was 

Eric - Host: interviewed by Odette. That's right.

Taylor - Host: So for today, I think it would be awesome if we just talked about the first six months of sobriety. Whether or not people use trackers and what we all did to get to that point, whether it was trial and error, research and development, however you want to call it. That's the topic. So let's just go ahead and roll into it.

I don't know. Wherever anybody wants to start, we can. We can start with trackers. I mean, tie it. Do you use a tracker at. 

Tyrell - Guest: Um, so yeah, this ain't my first time. I'm not just six months sober. I've been sober curious since 2019, since before we met. I used trackers for a long time, and this last July I, I gave up on using a tracker because I found that it wasn't useful to me yet.

I'd have this mindset in my mind that I hadn't to get to 30 days, or I had to get seven days, 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, whatever it was. And then I would hit [00:08:00] that goal and then, I felt accomplished. I was like, okay, well I did that. Now I guess now I could go drink. Right? So I kind of, it kind of set myself up for failure in my opinion.

And you know, , it's not something that was very useful to me. And then the worst part about the tracker is that keeps track of how many fucking times you reset it . So it's like, congratulations, you went 30 days, but you also have 41 resets. , 

Taylor - Host: you are a fuck up 41 times. We've kept count . We can prove it, you know?

Every time I saw that down at the bottom, I would literally just uninstall the app and reinstall it because I'm an alcoholic and I didn't wanna see those numbers . Perfect. 

Eric - Host: Well, you do know that they have trackers that do percentages. As well say you're struggling to string a lot of days together, but maybe your percentage of days not drinking is high for, say a month versus maybe you're sober for 59 days to say 99% of the time in the last two months you've been sober.

Think about that. That's [00:09:00] pretty damn good. 

Taylor - Host: Well, that's cool that there's apps like that to all of our listeners if you wanna. These types of apps just go into your app store and literally just type in sobriety tracker and there's gonna be a lot of different options out there. It's a really cool new world where we can do these types of things and it's different things for different folks when it comes to how we go about tracking things.

What about your experience, Eric, for, you know, maybe the first six months? Did you use a tracker? Did you not use a. I was very 

Eric - Host: picky about how I wanted to do this, and I did not want to go the traditional route of sobriety. So I found re through Annie Grace, I like you, listen to the podcast probably for a good six months and kept telling myself I should join the group.

I would keep putting it off and kicking a can down the road cuz I knew in my brain if I joined a group and pay this money to join this group. I cannot drink anymore. So I gotta get this outta my system because I'm not fucking. and that was my little talk to myself. [00:10:00] So I finally joined a group in uh, February of 2019.

and I did get the tracker actually re had his own tracker. And I, I just downloaded that because I didn't know that all these kinds of ideas that were out there for trackers. So I did use a tracker in the early days. I was really kind of into it and I would look at it and everything else. But then as time has gone on, I don't look at it that often.

Every, actually, if I'm gonna post where I'm at every Sunday or something like that, then I'll, I have to look cuz I don't, I can't remember. The days, you know? 

Taylor - Host: Right. Well, and it's kind of interesting from, you have two trains of thoughts. When you think about using a tracker verse, not using a tracker, the tracker can be beneficial because you're racking and stacking days, you're seeing momentum, you're seeing progress, but.

At a certain point in sobriety, there are the people that will say sometimes that tracking of progress actually makes them feel like they're not progressing [00:11:00] at all whatsoever. And that, yeah, they're racking and stacking days, but they're actually feeling shittier and shittier and shittier, and that is maybe dependent upon external factors or life that's happening, uh, to them or around them.

It just doesn't end up working out in the long run. And then when there's a relapse or when you go back out and you see those numbers reset to zero, you're like, oh, crap. Like I did all that work for nothing, which is not true, but that's the mentality that goes along with it, you know? Or. You have other people that are like, no, I really love the tracker.

It keeps me on track. It keeps me motivated. I'm a competitive person and it drives me to push forward. That's me. It drove me forward, like I loved erasing my whiteboard and putting a new number up there. That was my original OG tracker. I needed to physically be the one writing my numbers on the whiteboard, on my refrigerator every single day, [00:12:00] and that felt good.

That gave me motivation. I did download a couple of trackers. I had the re one for a little bit. They also have on there where like you end up saving money and it'll tell you how much money you're saving per day, but you have to like put in your estimates and stuff. So that's actually kind of motivating as well.

But I. Eventually got away from a lot of the trackers. I stopped caring. It mattered to me, uh, probably for the first six months of sobriety. And then after a year I really just kind of stopped caring. I have a tracker now just to know where I'm at in my journey and to, you know, kind of celebrate minor milestones when they come up.

It'll ping me. Outside of that, I don't really care for it because I like what Tyrell was saying, is having that day-to-day mentality, it's not important how many days I have racked and stacked. No matter how far down this road of recovery I go, I am still only [00:13:00] three feet from the ditch next to me, which means I'm always just one arm length away from my next drink.

So, . If I worry about, you know, oh, I'm so sober. I have a thousand plus days of sobriety. That's how sober I am. Therefore, alcohol can't touch me. No, the drink is still right there. I can accidentally pick it up and boom, I've relapsed. So the day-to-day concept, one day at a time, odat matters to me a little bit more these days.

Tyrell - Guest: I like how you said you're three feet from the ditch. I, I, for the most part, felt like I was on a tight rope, so it was just like one little imbalance. It was a lot closer than three feet. I think I would've just been right off. 

Taylor - Host: And where are you at now then? Um, 

Tyrell - Guest: I think I'm in a much better place now. 

Taylor - Host: Are you still on a tightrope?

Um, 

Tyrell - Guest: no. I have some other things that are working for me. Um, actually last July, um, I bought a guitar and I've never picked one up before. So now every time I like. Get off work or whatever and be like, oh dang, I should just stop by the liquor store. And then I'm like, [00:14:00] no, I'm just gonna, if I go home and I try to learn how to play one chord, uh, two chords or whatever, an hour will pass.

And I know I won't feel this way anymore. That's cool. I like that. That's actually where I'm at right now. I mean, that's what's working for me right now. But uh, yeah, like I said, it's six months is actually the longest, um, six months in change now. Probably be seven months there and about, I don't know, another 10 days or 

Eric - Host: something.

Wow. That's great. Yeah. Hey, I got, I got a question for, since we're talking about six months, a big question for all of us. I wanna talk about feelings. 

Taylor - Host: All right, Anne, please stay tuned with us, folks. We know, uh, 50% of you just wanted to jump off there, so , but 

Eric - Host: I would just, I would just, well, but, but really in the first six months, I mean, we're all over the place.

You know, ah, I mean, we, I don't know. I mean, I know there's guys out there that probably go, well, I don't have feelings, you know, I just get pissed off. And bats [00:15:00] have feelings, man. That's anger. But, uh, you know, we won't go there. Um, yes, ladies and gentlemen, men do have feelings and bullshit. Men in sobriety have learned to find those feelings, um, and lose them again.

No, just kidding. Um, to find those feelings and learn how to work with them. , how were your feelings the first, I mean, did you find, did, did any of us find kind of a weirdness to the beginning of sobriety with our feelings? Were we like, I know for me, I was kind of, I was all over the place. I mean, I would have great days and then I would have days where I felt like a piece of shit, you know?

And then I would like have these fleeting feelings about different things. In my life. Uh, and then I would have moments that things would work out and I'd be kind of happy about that, and then I would get down about something else, you know? So I always felt like I was just like on this roller coaster with, [00:16:00] with, you know, all kinds of different things coming up.

And I was just, I remember people telling me in the first six months, just hold on, just hold on. I, I mean, I always would envision when they would say that I was on that roller coaster, you know? And they're going, it's going up that highest hill, that highest peak, and you hear that clicking sound. Click, click, click, click, click, click, and you know, you're about ready to go right over the edge, and you get right to the top of it and zoom right down there.

That's how I felt the first six months with my feeling. I love roller 

Tyrell - Guest: coasters. I wish I could have

Eric, did you know the tallest rollercoaster in the United States is in New Jersey, just 

Taylor - Host: so you know. Yeah, it's called Eric's fucking feelings. . Yeah. . No, 

Tyrell - Guest: it, it really is. I've been on, I think it, I think it's on, um, it's on the south end of the turnpike, just on the, um, New Jersey side of the double air bridge.

Eric - Host: Yeah, it's, it, it's great adventure. Great, great adventure. I wrote it 

Tyrell - Guest: this, I wrote it last [00:17:00] April. I was in New 

Taylor - Host: Jersey. Latest attraction, Eric's feelings. Come ride them for the first 

Eric - Host: six months. You know what, you know what? Listen. Fuck you, . 

Taylor - Host: Don't tell me with a good time. You have 

Eric - Host: feelings. Admit it. 

Taylor - Host: No, actually, I, I I love this.

I I love this. I, you know, and Tyrell, what, what, besides that joke, what do you. 

Tyrell - Guest: Um, my feelings, um, it was mostly fear, honestly, I think was, for me, just, I think it is for a lot of people, the fear of the unknown of, uh, what, what are my friends gonna think? Or what am I gonna do if this situation arises, or what am I gonna do with this?

And it was, I mean, it was so comfortable and you get in a place where you're so comfortable. It was easier to be comfortable even when it was damaging. Wow. When I was drinking. Right. I just couldn't let it go cuz it's so much more, so much more comfortable for me to at least know what the fuck is gonna happen.

Even when I know that what's gonna happen is [00:18:00] I'm gonna fuck something up or I'm gonna damage something. Or it took a long time for that. The fear of the unknown to leave me. It's like, it's like the abusive spouse that, you know, stays in their relationship just because they know what's gonna happen and they're comfortable in that situation, you know?

And I felt the same, pretty much the same way with alcohol. And I did for a long time, months. , 

Eric - Host: I think a lot of us 

Taylor - Host: did. Right? Yeah. And everything that you said made me pause and really think, because one of the biggest reasons why I love that we're all a bunch of like-minded people having these conversations is because the longer you get away from alcohol, the more we forget.

And then when we talk to somebody who's early on in recovery, they benefit us just like we benefit them and. It's a circle of life, and what I'm getting at in all of this is what you just shared. Hit me in such a personal way [00:19:00] because I forget these things. I forget these the way that I felt in the beginning.

And to hear somebody who's fresher from it speaks so raw and use those analogies to talk about. Eric, I think you might have a point. We do have feelings and , you forget these things. You know, men are taught to suppress and avoid and charge on and suck it up. Right? Well, That just that doesn't do anything.

That just puts a lid on a fricking active bomb waiting to explode. And part of this recovery journey is knowing that you're actually being abused. And yeah, that sounds dramatic, but when we're at that severe place of depression, we kind of have to. Say to [00:20:00] ourselves, I need to sack up. I need to handle this.

I need to man up. I need to, all of these words and phrases that don't do anything productive for us at all whatsoever. No, I need to. Fucking talk to somebody. I need to connect with somebody. I need to get out of my fucking head and have a conversation and realize that I am in an abusive relationship, and I can voice that out loud without being my own worst critic and saying, shut up pussy piece of shit.

You can't fucking tell that to yourself. Right? That's abusive language to our own. But when I can actually just say, look guys, I actually need to talk to somebody. That's how I was in my first six months of sobriety, right, is I needed to talk to somebody and I needed to start being vulnerable, and I needed to start admitting some truths about myself that I was so afraid of admitting.

And I love that you used the word fear, because fear to me has two meanings. And people may have heard [00:21:00] this before or not, but if you haven't, then here you go, fuck everything. And. I was really good at that. Or face everything and rise. And when you get into the world of recovery, they, they change that last one face, everything.

And recover. 

Eric - Host: That's great. I, I love that when we start to let ourselves feel is when we start to heal because we're not running from it anymore. We're, we're facing it. And a friend of mine who's got, I think he just turned two, he uses this, and I love this term. He goes, recovery now is discovery. So he changed the word recovery to discovery.

And when I read that, I'm like, oh my god, that's like right on the. You know, that's what, to me, that's what it all is. And in those early six months, the discovery that was happening, I wasn't aware of, it was just happening. Like my feelings were all over the place. And then they started to make a little bit of sense to me in the, in the first six months, I, I was just trying not to [00:22:00] drink and I was just trying to get through a day and I mean, I remember my first, um, St.

Patrick's day, so I was. 40 days sober, maybe 45 days sober. And my friend called me and him and his now wife were going to a, a pub that we used to always go to. I mean, I used to go to it as well. And they were like, Hey, you wanna go with us? We're going to this pub. And I had like 40 days. And, and he knew I did, it wasn't cuz he was trying to mess with me, but he, he just, he just thought, Hey, why don't you come have corn, beef or whatever and you can go home.

But I knew I couldn't be in that. . I wasn't ready yet to be in that environment without drinking and so I really felt like I was missing out. I really felt like this sucks cuz if this is what sobriety is, if this is what recovery is, me sitting in my fucking house by myself, um, and not being able to go and enjoy that, that with them, then I don't know if I wanna do it.

And I remember just having that feeling and I, and I posted on Recovery Elevator that that [00:23:00] night, and I remember people just saying, hang in there. Yeah, you're right. It sucks, but you'll be all right. You're gonna be all right. Just hang in there. And just having those people saying, you're right, it sucks.

Was, I needed that. I needed to know that I wasn't like all screwed up in the head that there were a lot more people out there that were feeling the same way I was feeling. And, and I just think those are some of the things in early recovery that I learned. Um, and I was somebody who was really hard about, um, I didn't do well with connection.

and, uh, and so when these little early moments of connection would happen like that, it was overwhelming to me because like people are actually nice to each other and people actually support each other. Where have I been all my life? , you know this as, I've never found all this stuff. 

Taylor - Host: This is pretty cool.

And it totally changes the script too, on like what you, yeah. What you expect versus what you. . Absolutely. 

Eric - Host: Yeah, 

Tyrell - Guest: for sure. I had a hard time with the connection too. For [00:24:00] a long time I thought I, I had to do this by myself and that I had to just, you know, stick it out because it's what guys do, I guess. But, um, this last time I actually, I started seeking like professional counseling and.

Started treating my addiction more like an ailment than just something that happened to me. Like I just thinking myself, like if I broke my leg, I wouldn't be like, oh, I'm just gonna fucking work on this tomorrow. Maybe it'll get a little bit better. . No, you go to a doctor, right? So, 

Eric - Host: well, actually, 

Taylor - Host: is it that way?

Dude, I love that. 

Tyrell - Guest: Once, one, once I, uh, once I considered this an ailment rather than just something that happened and then there are people that work on this particular ailment specifically, then I was like, holy shit, I could pay Miss Counselor $20 a week for. Nine, 12 months, however long I want to go see 'em.

I mean, it's totally cheap, it's totally affordable, and it actually fucking works for me. I mean, I don't know if it works for [00:25:00] everybody, but it works for 

Taylor - Host: me. Wow. That is awesome. Awesome. And you know what I love about that perspective? There's this phrase that I started connecting to sobriety. When I slowly got into the rooms and starting hearing other people share their experiences and connecting with other like-minded individuals in this world that I need to take my medication.

If I have an infection in my body. A doctor prescribes me an antibiotic, and that antibiotic is for 10 days, right? What do we do like in society? The second we start feeling better, we stop. We stop taking the antibiotic. But what is it prescribed for? Prescribed for 10 days. And the reason is because, yes.

That's a 

Tyrell - Guest: horrible thing. You're making bacteria resistant things by not taking the entire 

Taylor - Host: course. Exactly. You're not taking the entire course. That's why they say 10 days. Right. You get a little glimpse of the better side and whoop, you're out. And just relating to the concept of like, Hey, I need to [00:26:00] treat this like a medical thing.

Well, I mean, come on. Let's be honest, right? It is actually noted in the DSM five. Alcohol Use Disorder is, I believe, the new name that is being utilized. What's cool is going and getting professional help, whether or not you wanna add in a 12 step program connection in like-minded groups that are out there.

There's something to be said about seeking professional counseling and talking to our doctors. Right? And me personally, it was so weird when somebody suggested that I was honest about my consumption. It was so crazy to be honest with my doctor about that stuff. Like the most bizarre thing in the world.

Oh, God forbid that we're actually honest about how much we're using and how much we're doing things, because then they can, they're not there to judge. They're there to literally be like, okay, oh, that's where you're at. Okay, well now I know how to better help you. I don't care. I don't, well, they do, but I don't want to judge you.

Here. Here [00:27:00] you go. Now you can go and, and, and do things this way, you know? And getting that professional help is a big deal. And I also utilized, uh, e a p employee assistance program. The three things I did before I got sober, I went to E A P and they helped me want to go about getting sober. Then I hit my rock bottom.

Then I contacted my 12 step group. Then I got into recovery elevator. So between those three things, Those three things were my accountability for the first six months and all the way through to today. Look 

Eric - Host: at that. We can talk about our feelings. We can actually ask for help. Wow, we can do a lot of things when we decide on on it, right?

definitely. And we're guys. And we're guys, and we were taught to toughen it up. Right. I, I love this conversation because we're, we're dealing with not just the emotions, but the idea of speaking up for ourselves. You know, the idea of, of [00:28:00] finding new pathways. I love Tyrell. The, that you talk about trying new stuff out and, and doing it differently than you did it before.

I think that's such a great message. You know? Cause a lot of times we keep doing the same thing over and over and over again expecting different results. Right. and 99.9% of the time, that doesn't work. So what a great message. 

Tyrell - Guest: I kind of feel like I did the exact opposite of what I was doing. I mean, I was spending so much time focusing in particular groups of recovery, and I was spending so much time dwelling on what I had done, what I had become, and what I did that it was just pulling me down.

So, like I said, I don't go to AA or I don't go to any sort of organized group meetings anymore. I don't do this tracker thing. I just, I kind of shoved all that stuff out and just started focusing on doing other things rather than focusing on doing like exactly the opposite of drinking. And I feel like that's helped me more than putting all my energy, focusing [00:29:00] on stuff that'll help me rather than just refocusing on doing something entirely.

Taylor - Host: So I would say that your program is set in place, though you do go and. Talk to your counselor there. You play guitar and you have a regimen that looks very different than how you were living your life and the routines that you were doing when you were in your active addiction. So regardless of whether or not it's a traditional approach or a different approach, you've developed something that has been working and has been sustainable, thus, and it seems to me like you have a continued desire to want to do more and grow and connect with others, and that I feel like speaks leaps and bounds in the world of what we're trying to achieve in recovery is we're not trying to get back the same life that we thought we really wanted.

We're actually trying to grow and change [00:30:00] into something more and something more natural and authentic. , right? Yeah. 

Tyrell - Guest: And honestly, I don't, I don't even know how I did it. Like if somebody came to me that was in my exact situation where I was almost seven months ago now, and they said, Hey man, what'd you do?

I'd be like, dude, I don't fucking know, man. You've got to go figure that out yourself. I just did it. I fucking white knuckled it and fucking drove here for seven months. That's how I did it. I mean, I'm, I'm not, I'm not a good teacher. I, I couldn't advise on somebody how to do that, but I could just give you ideas of what I did, I guess.

Eric - Host: I think the ideas are the, are the best. I mean, the, the beauty of this, this world of recovery in my opinion is whether you're on your day one or whether you're on day 5,000. I think every single person's story and journey is, and how they're trying to get into recovery and how they're trying to con maintain it is such a great opportunity for me to gain more tools.

[00:31:00] You know, I love in recovery elevator. We do a lot of chats and I host a chat on there, um, called A Year and Beyond. And what I love about that is a lot of people come on there that don't have a year that are part of that chat, and I feel like sometimes they add so much more to. The chat because they're coming from a perspective of wanting to know what it might be like down the road, but also bringing up where they're at.

And it's such a great reminder for a lot of us that, like Taylor was saying, you know, you tend to forget. Right? Which is typical. Most humans, we get hurt and we're like, oh, well I wanna, I'm not gonna do that again. And then we start getting better and we do it again. Right? That's kind of how typically humans do.

We just conveniently forget, and I think in sur in in recovery we do the same thing. We, we get down the road aways in and away from a drink aways and we forget. You know what it was like to wake up at three in the morning, um, you know, an anxiety ridden over what you had just done [00:32:00] the night before. If you can even remember what you did, which might be even worse, anxiety cuz you can't remember, or that, that just had a shitty hangover feeling that you had the whole next day.

You know, we forget about those things unless we talk about it and bring it up. And I love the fact that Tyrell, you, you, you were talking about, you know, this is what we're basically saying, this is what works for me. because I think that's the point, and that's, that's where I think recovery has gone to now, where it's.

As much as we're about community, we're also about individuality. You know that, that it does take us as individuals to figure out ourselves and what works for us. You gotta find your own way. People are there to support you. People are there to help you, but they can't tell you what to do because you are unique individual and you gotta figure out what works for you and you gotta find the thing, and you're gonna find that.

Trial and error. You try things. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Right? You find out by other people like they're doing something and you're like, oh, maybe I'll try that, or maybe I'll try this. But I just think in the first six [00:33:00] months, not only is it about staying away from a drink, but it's also about learning what's out there and what people are doing and adding to your repertoire, right of of things that you can use to stay away from.

Taylor - Host: I think the whole point in all of this, especially if we're on an active path of consistent sobriety days, that it's not pretty, it's not textbook. The whole goal at the end of the day, speaking strictly about alcohol is that I just don't fucking drink today. And no matter how you achieve that mission, fucking.

and sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles for six. I've seen that be the case for a year. I've seen that be the case for some people for five years, and while we look from the outside and go, well, I can help him out. I know exactly what he needs to do. Oh, I can actually give an opinion on this, [00:34:00] depending.

On the situation, yeah, you might be able to do something and help them find their way, but ultimately if they're staying away or they're failing forward, then that's fine. And I think the whole point is to grow and the longer we stay away, the better perspective we get. There's a reason why the rear view mirror is small, and the windshield in front of us is so darn big because I'm focusing on my future, but I like to make sure I'm checking up on my past every once in a while so I don't have to go back there again.

Right? So we've talked about feelings, we've talked about sobriety trackers, and we've talked about the first six months and some of the. Struggles and challenges we've gone through and some of the approaches that we've taken getting there. What about maybe some 

Eric - Host: tools? Yeah, I like that. Wait, 

Taylor - Host: do we have tools in this show?

Is that what we, [00:35:00] is that something that we do? Do we talk about tools? Yeah, tools. I think so. Tools. I think somewhere along the way, yeah. I have a toolbox. Nice. With my tools. I like it. So I know Tyrell, you just got done saying you have no idea how you got to six plus months of continuous sobriety away from alcohol, but.

If you had to pick a tool that you would think worked for you during that six months, what would it be? 

Tyrell - Guest: Yeah, like I said, I've already told you about one. It's my guitar. It's right here, so that's helped me a lot. One of the things I learned a long time ago is, When you get these cravings, if you just give them time, most of the time they'll pass.

So, I mean, I'll get a craving and even if I'm at work or whatever, I'll just be like, I'll just like, I'll tell the guys we're we, I built houses. So it's pretty easy just to say like, I'm gonna go sit down for a minute. Right. I'm, it's not like I'm. Doing something super important that has to be done, or I can't stop, or I'm on the phone or [00:36:00] something, you know?

But anyway, so I'll just like, you know, I'm just gonna go take five minutes or whatever, and I'll just go sit and I'll, I'll give a lot of thought to why exactly am I feeling this way? As in why do I want to go drink, or why do I wanna go to the liquor store when I get off? and I'll think about it for five minutes and I'll be like, why do I feel this way?

And I'll break down kind of the pros and cons of both. So the pros of going to the liquor store is I'll be able to get fucked up. And, um, well that's about it. . And then the cons are feel like shit tomorrow. 

Taylor - Host: Yeah, 

Tyrell - Guest: I'm gonna feel like shit tomorrow. I'm gonna have a lot of remorse. I'm gonna have regret after about, after putting thought into those, those exact feelings.

Plus maybe a few more that I'm not mentioning, but after, you know, five, 10 minutes of just really thinking about that and contemplating both choices. I could usually just pass that feeling, you know? And so that, that was a huge tool for me, [00:37:00] um, that I learned a long time ago, and I still use it to 

Taylor - Host: this day.

Wow. I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. That's great. I do believe that process is commonly called playing the tape forward. Is thinking through in this moment without taking any action yet, what will the night look like if I go down this road and what will the night look right look like if I go down that road and that conscious moment of pausing before moving forward in either direct.

Gives us that space buffer and it's called playing the tape forward of the evening, getting through to tomorrow morning and going, yeah, no, fuck that road. I've been down that road too many times. I wanna try this road over here. Yeah. But I think, 

Tyrell - Guest: I mean, you really got to take those feelings in and account for your feelings, cuz there's been numerous times where I've done the same thing and my mind was already made up.

I might as well have been at the liquor store while I'm fucking thinking about this. I know I'm going through the motions, but my fucking mind is made up so, [00:38:00] 

Taylor - Host: I completely agree. I think I've done that myself, uh, a thousand times, um, before I even knew I wanted to be sober, where I would play these mental jumping jacks with myself.

But there's a very distinct difference, especially when you start be choosing to become conscious about this type of thinking. You start to notice and that simple awareness is forward progress, even. To everybody else. They probably don't see any changes at all whatsoever, but it's those little tiny, you're flexing these new muscles of awareness every single time you go to that liquor store.

Even if you do quote unquote fail by drinking that night, I would still say, look, these are baby steps in the right direction, because now you're starting to see the neuro pathways and you're starting to call them out mentally before they. And eventually you do that enough [00:39:00] times and before you know it, you're actually able to pause yourself.

Eric - Host: Right. I agree. I mean, and I think, you know, that also plays a role in Tyrell was talking about playing the guitar. and, and that choosing that over going to the liquor store and, you know, I was thinking about what are things that I replaced alcohol with, you know, and, and for me a lot of that was just getting out outdoors.

You know, getting I really, really getting into hiking more than I was prior to stopping drinking and, and really wanting that to be a big part of my life and, and everything else. And I've replaced now a lot of that frustration and feelings that would take me to the liquor store. Go to the gym, go, go on a run, go on a hike on a Saturday, get outta your head, you know, do something good for yourself.

You know? And um, and, and I think that also changes those neural pathways, right? So as we're changing that neural pathway, you know, we have this issue or this moment, [00:40:00] and our responses go to the liquor store. Now we have this of, this moment. Our response is to play the guitar. Our response is to go hiking.

Our response is to. Whatever, you know, go on a run, um, read a book, whatever it is that we do. And that is our trigger. That's where we go. I'm pissed off. I'm gonna read a book. I'm pissed off. I'm gonna go hiking. I'm pissed off. I'm gonna, versus I'm pissed off. I'm going to the liquor store. I'm pissed off.

I'm going to the bar, which is what 

Taylor - Host: I did. Yeah, I agree. So Eric, what's your tool? . 

Eric - Host: Oh, okay. We're, to me, yeah. One of the tools and, and I think a lot of times, you know, as I listen more and more, I think they all kind of intersect a little bit. One of my tools that I really like is the space between whatever the, the trigger was and my, my sitting on a bar stool drinking a beer.

So that space in between that, before I take the action of going to the bar, I think about it kind of like what Tyrell just went through of, uh, well, why do I feel this? [00:41:00] And by the way, I actually utilize that in my life now too. Not just in terms of drinking, but in terms of a lot of things in my life, a lot of things that I'm doing in my life, whether it's in regards to relationship, in regards to job, in regards to projects, whatever it might be.

I try to take the time and go, why am I feeling this way? What am I lacking? This making me feel this way about this situ. and I, and I attribute a lot of that to recovery and, and the fact that in recovery I learn those tools to help me not drink. So why can't those tools help me in my life? All the tools.

Tyrell - Guest: They really, they're almost interlaced. I mean, in a way, I mean, everybody might have the same exact tool, but there's, you know, a thousand ways to use that tool. Like everything's a fucking hammer, right? 

Taylor - Host: Hell yeah. We could use the, yeah, everything's 

Tyrell - Guest: a hammer, , we could use the same tool in a different way.

Right. But yeah, it's great, man. I, uh, I kind of use the same type of things, Eric, they're doing. Eric does. [00:42:00] Kind of in my own way, I guess it was right. We basically had the same answer, but we both use it a kind of a different way. I guess 

Taylor - Host: I, I really like what both of you guys had to say on this. I think playing the tape forward and looking at that from different angles is, A beautiful thing because different concepts can mean completely different things to different people.

And how we go about utilizing them as Ty was just saying, is such a personal thing. And it just drives us to move forward. And the beautiful thing is that all of these are tools and we can choose to use them in any way, shape, or form that works for us and our journey. I was thinking about my original. I was thinking about my early days of recovery and what I had said earlier when Ty was talking about the rawness of his experience and the fear that went into his early days, it really brought me back and it had [00:43:00] me think about a couple of things and I haven't thought about it in a long time.

And one of 'em was accountability. I got to a point of such lone. My significant other at the time, she couldn't handle my shit anymore, nor should she have she left. I was getting ready to ask her to marry me. The bottle was telling me she was all about it, and reality was saying something completely different and she left.

And when I was left in my own turmoil and despair and victim. , I had one goal and that was to just continue to drink. Knowing full well that I had a problem at that point and that I could not stop no matter what I tried to do. And the harder, and harder and harder I [00:44:00] tried daily to do something different.

The more and more and more it constricted and re, and, and, and was killing me, I couldn't sleep on my back. because, uh, my kidneys hurt. I had blood in my stool. When I went to the bathroom, I went to the doctor and I had elevated liver enzymes and I had such intense ringing in my ears always constantly that I had to turn on super loud noise just to fall asleep at night, and I could not fall asleep unless I had at least a six pack of Log Anitas IPA and a pint of Fireball every single day for two years straight.

So, coming from. and then experiencing the fear behind letting all that go. I got out a gun and I was ready to do something about it. Looking back, I didn't want to kill myself. What I wanted was for the ringing to stop and the pain and suffering to go away. I wanted to wake up, but I didn't know how to make both happen, [00:45:00] and instead, I dropped to the.

And I prayed to somebody I didn't even know if they existed. I didn't believe in anymore from my childhood. And I said, fucking help. I can't, I, I, I can't anymore. And somebody's name popped into my head who's been there my entire life, who's in the world of recovery and said, call him. And so I did, and he came out and he taught.

What going to 12 Step was all about, and he showed me a podcast called Recovery Elevator because one of his spons was in Recovery Elevator. And all of a sudden these really crazy things started happening to me, and it all started by BA original, fearful turned into Fearless Act of being account. I was so terrified about [00:46:00] being accountable because once I pulled that trigger, not the one that I thought I pulled, one wanted to pull that day, but when I pulled that other trigger that keeps us drinking the accountability trigger, I couldn't take it back.

Now that person knows that I am an alcoholic and I have a. And that is what keeps us out for so damn fucking long, is we don't pull that accountability trigger. Because once we do, we wanna take it back because our addiction wakes us up the next morning. And it was like, it was all a dream and it wasn't fucking real.

And guess what? He wasn't able to come out for seven days. And when he got out here, you know what my one mission in life was to make him go the fuck back to ca. And me pretend that I had this figured out. And Oopsy Doopy. Just kidding. Uh, we're all good here, but because I [00:47:00] got started in that program, something somebody said, and that connection and that accountability kept me wanting to come back and actually try to make steps to do something different, change the narrative, play that tape forward in a completely new way.

And on top of that, I had to start establishing, and here's my tool. And I know I'm it long-winded. God forbid Taylor's long-winded. But my tool is this. The thing that I thought about when Tyrell was talking, in addition to accountability, was my sobriety is a table. The legs are what support it, and my sobriety table has three.

And I have to keep all three legs going simultaneously if I want to maintain my sobriety consistently. And that is mental sobriety, physical sobriety, and spiritual sobriety. And. That's what Ty brought me [00:48:00] back to when he brought up the fear thing of it all is I have to remind myself that if I simply focus on only one of those three legs, my sobriety will not be maintained.

And this is for Taylor and Taylor only. There were moments in time where I actually worked out every single day for an entire month, and I didn't. and I achieved that goal just like Ty said, right? You achieved that goal on that tracker that you know I'm gonna do something for 30 days. Boom, you hit that tracker goal and boom, where are you back fucking drinking because you achieved something.

And so when I did that, I could physically stay sober, but I would have to work out like a dog just to keep that going forever. And if I focus on just the spiritual, I'm gonna meditate every single day. I'm not feeding into the other. You know, so mental realizing who's talking, learning [00:49:00] tips and tricks, learning those tools, applying them daily, that's the mental game here, the spiritual game for me.

Was developing a relationship with something that could ca take control of this addiction that wasn't fucking me. And getting those words, I've got this out of my vocabulary and giving it up to a power greater than me that I don't understand, nor do I want to, and just let them take the wheel on this thing.

And then the last one is the physical side. Picking up that. Going and replacing it with something positive and realigning those neural pathways and teaching them a different way of coping with life on life's terms. So thank you, Ty, for bringing me back into those spaces and allowing me to like relive some of that stuff because that's the work that it took for me in those first six.

That alcohol 

Tyrell - Guest: was so, so powerful to you, and you were so [00:50:00] comfortable in that moment that you were going to continue down, that even when you knew it was gonna be damaging. And, um, that's just the power of alcohol was on you. And, and like you said, you, you even reached out to a friend and told him, so now you've burned the bridge, burned the ship, whatever.

You can't go back. And even after you did alcohol was so powerful that you had wished it hadn't happened. And I can relate to that so much. I'm like, there's a lot of shit that I wish people didn't know because now. , I have to be accountable to that, to those people. And, and accountability is a powerful tool.

I mean, you could fight alcoholism with an accountability and it works and it works for a while, or it might work for a long time. But I think, I think the take home message here is, is to burn the fucking ships and have accountability, uh, help you as a tool. Wow. 

Taylor - Host: Yeah. I like. I think that's a great message.

I, 

Eric - Host: I love, I I love the three, the three leg analogy. Um, cuz I, I do agree [00:51:00] with that and, and I feel like when all three of those things are working or that I'm working on those three things, I am in much better balance than, which only makes sense, but I'm in much better balance in terms of my. than what I would be if only one of those things was working.

So that, I love that point that you made. That was a great point. Um, and I just wanted to thank Tyrell for, um, saying what he had to say to bring up that dissertation from, uh, Taylor . Sorry. No, I'm just kidding. It was good. I mean, everything you had to say was right on the money. I thought it was really awesome.

I liked the idea and the accountability piece. Tyrell, and you had brought that up early on in, in the discussion. Bad accountability to ourselves, you know, first and foremost. But we kind of tend to use other people first, right? And go, well, I already told them I, you know, I have a problem, so now I've gotta live up to that.

I th yeah, 

Tyrell - Guest: I think, uh, the positive f fear of letting somebody down that as now holding you accountable is [00:52:00] just as strong as alcohol and I guess is what I'm saying. 

Eric - Host: Right. I agree with you, but I'm not so sure that in the early days of sobriety, you think that that was in a po that was necessarily a positive thing, because I think in both ca boats, yeah, 

Tyrell - Guest: sure, sure.

It's probably, it's 

Eric - Host: probably hindsight, but Well, right. Cuz in the beginning you're like, fuck, I told every. You know, like now I can't screw up anymore because I told everyone I can't drink. God damn it. Yeah, 

Taylor - Host: exactly. It's actually a perspective that you gain, I think is a good way to look at it. It's a perspective that you gain from work done.

Exactly.

Eric - Host: I just wanted to make a point, you know, for the listeners too, and they heard one term in in particular, it might be, what does that mean? Um, Tyrell and so did Taylor, but Tyrell used the term burn the ships. So that's a term that you hear a lot in the recovery world. And what that really means is that accountability piece of letting people know, Hey, listen, I've got a problem [00:53:00] and this is what it is.

Um, that all came out of a historical thing, and I won't go into the deep historical part, but if anybody remembers their Spanish history, Cortez led a group of people to Mexico and they were severely outnumbered. And the only way that he was gonna be able to win was that he burned all the ships. in the port.

So the guys had no way of going back. They either had to win or they were gonna die. That was his choice and motivation. But that whole burn the ships, meaning you have no other choice. Now. You have to go forward and, and I think that that's in recovery. When we talk about burning ships, that's kind of what we're saying.

It's like, look, you make it public to the world what you're doing, and it's gonna be really hard to be sneaky and go back because they're all gonna. 

Taylor - Host: No, the retreat, no surrender. 

Tyrell - Guest: If you do go back, you gotta do a breaststroke, which is really fucking hard 

Eric - Host: to get back. . 

Taylor - Host: Hey, Tyrell, it has been such an awesome experience with you today.

You've been such a joy, such [00:54:00] a laugh, and thanks for coming on and talking with a couple of drunks like 

Eric - Host: us. Absolutely. Thank you, Tyrell. That was amazing. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Hey, thank you all for listening to this show. We really appreciate it. 

Taylor - Host: Thank you so much for joining us today, and we would not be here without you.

Eric - Host: New episodes, air every Friday morning. This show is available 

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Eric - Host: shed that shame. Don't forget to take care of yourself today. We love you and you are worth it. 

Taylor - Host: Coming in regular, coming in hot.[00:56:00] [00:57:00]