Episode 06 - It's Okay To Not Be Okay! Ft. Brian

Show notes from the hosts:
In this episode we are joined by Brian! He took his last drink in  September 2019. He's 48 y/o and lives in South Carolina. The guys introduce Brian as their guest.  Brian thought he was getting paid.
Brian is a host for his own show called Recovery Rising. 
They all discuss the adventures of Podcasting
They speak on the idea of a meditation practice
Brian talks about needing to quiet his mind
Taylor introduces the "struggles" we go through in sobriety
Brian talks about the major stress of loosing his father at Christmas, unexpectedly.  2 months later he looses his job.
Grief and failure are themes
He has stayed sober through all of this.
Brian, talks about wanting oblivion
Eric talks about his strength and accountability
Taylor discusses empathy
In sobriety we learn to ride the waves that  come our way.
Brian talks about people worrying about his sobriety
Eric talks about the idea of presence during the hard times
Taylor suggesting that speaking your truth-get it out so it doesn't beat you up.
Taylor talks about when his father was diagnosed with cancer, he kept drinking.
The building of neuropathways allows us to do something different in the face of adversity
Brian talks about being ok with not being ok
Guys can cry-it's ok-we need to get the emotions out
Taylor speaks about how pent up emotions-we struggle with admitting that we are hurting
Eric talks about the societal conditioning of men.
Men need to own how they manage feelings.
Taylor talks about how Vulnerability equals strength
Eric speaks about how men can show this strength to each other
Brian speaks about how we are controlled by our ego
Everything happens for me, not too me.
Accepting Grief and anger as real feelings.
Brian's wisdom of this all is take small steps.
Eric's tool is volunteering
Taylor's tool is meditation
Brian's tool is cross fit training
Brian brings up the phoenix program
Taylor and Brian discuss how the phoenix program works-It's a sober active community
Three tools had themes in Body, Mind and Spirit
Check out Brian's podcast-Recovery Rising
Guest Social Media
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/recovery-rising/
https://thephoenix.org/
Host's and Show Social Media
sobershameless@gmail.com
IG: @sobernshameless
Tiktok @sobernshameless
buymeacoffee.com

Transcript

Episode 06 - It's Okay To Not Be Okay

Guest - Brian: [00:00:00] Sober and Shameless, episode six.

Host - Taylor: Hey everybody. Welcome to the show. I'm Taylor Klinger. And I'm Eric. Andrew. And this is Sober and Shameless shedding the Shame, the podcast that flips the script on what it means to live a sober life. In each 

Host - Eric: episode of Sober and Shameless, the host, along with the occasional guests, will pick a topic to shed their shame about, explore ideas on how to grove through those challenges, and provide organic, lighthearted, honest, and unprofessional commentary about their experiences with addiction, strength through recovery and life and sob.

Host - Taylor: What's up? Hey man. 

Host - Eric: Happy Friday. 

Host - Taylor: T g Happy Friday up t g Alright, up. It is Friday. We are getting ready for the weekend and just like always [00:01:00] What are you doing man? 

Host - Eric: Uh, I'm gonna be doing a lot of stuff. Uh, I think I'm going to try to get out on a hike. Uh, we're gonna see how my leg works, so I'm going to gonna go out and hopefully I don't break it again.

And uh, but you broke your leg. Yeah, I, I had a stress fracture. I didn't tell you about that. Did you talk about this? I don't know if we did. Maybe not. I, I think, I'm trying to forget about it cuz it came at a really bad inopportune time. Not that there's ever an opportune time to break 

your 

Host - Taylor: leg. Right.

Well, I mean, okay, so when did you break your leg? 

Host - Eric: Uh, well that's a great question because when I did go to the doctor and there was an x-ray, it was a stress fracture and he said, but it's healing. So it's an old injury. So I have no idea what that meant, but I do know that from the time that I heard it till the time I actually went to the doctor was about a month.

So I may, it had, may have been in the healing process for about a month. So he put me in a boot for three weeks and, uh, but 

Host - Taylor: then I [00:02:00] couldn't do anything. Wow. And you stayed sober through all of that challenge. Good for you friend. I did. I, I, I, and 

Host - Eric: you know what, it was weird because a lot of that, a lot of my, I mean, I go to the gym six days a week, I hike, I, I run, those are all things that fill up my time.

And now of a sudden I couldn't do much of that. I mean, it was allowed to go to the gym, but I could not do a whole lot there. So it was, you know, hit and miss and, uh, and I was a little worried to be honest with you. I was a little worried of like, what am I gonna fill my time with? So I just ate a lot of sugar, so now I have to, now I'm starting all over again.

Host - Taylor: Well, honestly, dude, I'm just, uh, happy that you were able to go through that and come out on the other side. I, well, how, I don't know how I missed this, but we may not have talked about it. Hey, it is what it is. So for me, I got, um, yeah. 

Host - Eric: Hey Taylor, what do you got going on this weekend, 

Host - Taylor: man? Oh, thanks for asking Eric.

I was wondering, I am going to do what I always do, which is work my [00:03:00] second job and probably do some working in the wood shop and just make sure my wife has all that she needs to continue doing awesome in nursing school. So at least it's a routine now. Yeah, and we only have like seven months, eight months left until she's done.

Um, and that's nice. Yeah. So I'm nice. I I'm, I'm looking forward to it. But before we continue on too much more, I think we have another guest on our show yet again, three episodes in a row. Can you believe that, Eric? 

Host - Eric: That's, that's incredible. That's awesome. What's awesome about that is that we, we actually have three people that wanted to talk to us three weeks in a row.

That

Host - Taylor: Honestly, that is probably the most impressive part. 

Host - Eric: that, that's what I'm thinking. 

Guest - Brian: I thought you guys said you were paying me. What's going on? 

Host - Taylor: Oh no. Did Taylor tell you that? [00:04:00] Well, okay, I guess the cat's out of the bag. The man with the super sexy voice on the radio and in our studio right now we have Brian on the show today.

He is in South Carolina, correct. And a member of the class of 2019 for sober warriors like myself and Eric. We are friends with him on one of our online recovery groups. That is where we've originally met Brian a couple years ago and we've been friends ever since. We thought it would be a great opportunity for you to come on the show and honestly, me personally, repay the favor of me coming on your podcast that you are doing for a period of time.

I think it was called Recovery Rising. Is that correct? Yeah, 

Guest - Brian: that's correct. Yeah. Uh, ultimately I'd like to, I'd like to resurrect that, but um, you know, it's, as you well know now, pro producing like an hour long episode takes you quite a bit of time each [00:05:00] week, so 

Host - Taylor: Yeah, definitely. And I do gotta say though, while you had it running, it was such a great show to listen to.

Of course. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. Um, Eric, were you on it too or were you not cool enough? No, I was 

Host - Eric: not. I was not cool enough. 

Guest - Brian: Well, if I'm resurrecting it Eric, then you can be one of the future guests, . 

Host - Taylor: Uh, 

Host - Eric: I'll definitely come if you invite me. . 

Guest - Brian: Well, I mean, that's the thing, right? I mean, mine was, mine was just a solo podcast, so my whole thing was I had to have a guest because that's where the conversation came from.

Nobody wants to listen to me, Dr. On for an hour about nothing. I 

Host - Taylor: don't know. I could fall asleep to that 

Guest - Brian: voice. Oh, stop. No, keep going. , . 

Host - Eric: I think there are a lot of people that would listen to your voice for 

Guest - Brian: an hour. Yeah, I need to, what I need to do is I need to record some, some meditation, feeling like, uh, insight Timer or, oh, I like that call.

Or one of those apps. 

Host - Eric: Yeah, 

Host - Taylor: I like that. That's a good idea. I am a huge fan of the Calm app. I actually adopted that early on in my recovery journey as well, just to kind of help me stop the clutter that was going [00:06:00] around up there. And that app came in Clutch now. Yeah. It's a monthly subscription, but that monthly subscription was a whole lot cheaper than the bottles of beer.

I was packing away every day. . 

Guest - Brian: Oh my God, yes. Yeah, no, I'm honestly, meditation has been crucial throughout my recovery and some, I'm, I'm, I've been better at it. sometimes than others, but when things are going on, it's the first thing I think about. Like, Hmm, I need to meditate more. So, yeah, 

Host - Eric: I, like me, meditation's helped me a lot.

I, I actually swear that it was meditation and it helped me when I made a decision to finally stop to stay on that track cuz I was able to calm my mind and settle it and all that. And I use Insight Timer. I, or I haven't really used it as much anymore, but I, I used Insight Timer. I really 

Host - Taylor: liked it when I adopted Calm is my platform for meditation.

I really had no idea what I was doing. I had like, read meditation books and it's really hard to conceptualize [00:07:00] meditation through reading, but it allowed me to at least develop a platform to reference. And then listening to the 10 minute meditations every day for, you know, X amount of consistent days in a row really did a number on changing my outlook and setting my priorities for that day.

Guest - Brian: The more you do it, the, it's like anything, right? The more, it's, it's almost like practice when you first sit down and try to meditate. If you've never done it, you're thinking, I am failing at this because I can't stop my mind from thinking, but your mind's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Like that's what our minds are made to do is to think, right?

Um, but the more you practice and the more you know, you put time into it, the deeper you can go into your meditations. So, like I said, like I haven't been doing it regularly, lately, and I wish I had because there was a period of time that I was doing it two to three times a day, 10 to 15 minutes a time.

And man, I could get really deep in that 10 to 15 minutes and be really calm and relaxed and clear-headed [00:08:00] when I came out of it. And now, of course, and sort of the purpose of us discussion, our discussion today is I got a lot going on right now. Um, and I need to do it more because my mind needs to calm down.

Host - Eric: I loved how Brian segued so well. He must have done this before. Oh, that's right. 

Guest - Brian: He had a podcast, . Yeah, the segue is key, my friend. The segway is key. I'm 

Host - Taylor: still stuck on whether or not it was called a segueway before, a skateboard before roller blades. So I'm just still confused on that whole thing. But you know, I'm on episode two apparently still, and I need to catch up 

Guest - Brian: and I guess they call it a segue cuz you seamlessly get from point A to point B.

Host - Taylor: I guess so, but so do you wanna skateboard ? 

Guest - Brian: You gotta, you gotta put a little bit more work into a skateboard. Listen, you talked to Taylor, stand on it and you lean slightly , right? But 

Host - Taylor: what came first, the phrase or the mobile? 

Guest - Brian: [00:09:00] Oh, it was definitely the, the phrase man. Yeah, the segue. I heard segway before. I mean, I look, I'm a little bit older, right?

I'm 48 years old, so I've been hearing the term segway for a long time. And that segue's only been around for what, 15, 20 years. That's 

Host - Taylor: true. I think mall cop uh, invented it. Wait, no wait, 

Host - Eric: really? Segway's only been around 15, 20 years. That sounds about, I thought it was always around. 

Host - Taylor: No, no, no. He's not talking about the phrase, he's talking about the actual like the 

Guest - Brian: actual like thing that you stand on and 

Host - Eric: Oh, okay.

I don't. All right. I was totally lost. 

Host - Taylor: Did you see that Brian? Did you see that It went over his head? 

Host - Eric: and it's easy for it to go over my head. . 

Host - Taylor: Well now that we've totally killed the segue . Exactly. , 

Guest - Brian: yeah. We to beat it into the 

Host - Eric: ground guys. I think that was on purpose, by the way, 

Host - Taylor: Taylor. Sorry, not sorry.

Hashtag less, not stressed.[00:10:00] 

As Brian was saying earlier, when it comes to meditation and developing this practice, which I really like the phrase practice, because there is no perfection in practice and the whole point is to find a center and to align yourself with the universe. And that's, this is my understanding of it, not necessarily an interpretation for anybody else.

And through all of that, it is a great tool to counteract what we're gonna be talking about today, which is struggles that we go through and grow through while we're in our recovery journey. We come into. Wanting to get away from our addiction. Realizing that it's not just straightforward, it does come with a lot of mental jumping jacks and a lot of flexing of muscles and neuro pathways that have never been developed or figured out before.

While we're doing those things, we need to remain [00:11:00] sober and vigilant and that's what we're here to figure out today is what does go on while we're still sober? What actually does happen and what have we done through our experiences to maintain and battle through, to get to the other side, to find that balance and serenity again.

Guest - Brian: Well, it's not always unicorn shit and rainbow dust all over you, really. It really isn't. Wow. and you know, we early on in, in recovery, , they call it the pink cloud, right? You're on that pink cloud and you're like, oh, everything is great right now. I feel great, but you know, now you said that we're the class of 2019.

So, you know, all of us are going on our fourth year. I think, Eric, you're very close to your fourth year milestone. And you know, just like you guys, I, I've lived through some things and quite honestly, I'm, I'm going through a pretty stressful period of my life right now. And that's kind of what spawned me being a guest on the podcast was Taylor [00:12:00] reaching out and saying, Hey man, I just wanted to check in and say hi.

You know, see how you're doing. And I was like, I'm not good, you know, I'm not good. and things are going on. And he said, and I said, he said, would you like to be a, you know, a guest on the podcast? And I said, you know what? I'd love to, because part of our recovery and part of the things that we need to do is get our thoughts outside of our head, because that's the most dangerous place for me to be, is in between my two ears, because I can churn and churn and churn on thoughts.

And yeah, it's just a really difficult period of my life right now. So, you know, back in December, two days before Christmas, December 23rd, my, my father unfortunately passed away unexpectedly. Um, he was out shopping for last minute Christmas gifts, walked to an, into an ACE hardware back home in Maryland and collapsed.

And, uh, they were never able to recover him. They listed it as a pulmonary embolism on his death certificate. Mm-hmm. , um, you know, which was quite, quite shocking. And of course, now we're, you know, I'm not even two months [00:13:00] away from it. So I'm still grieving the loss, the sudden loss of my father. He was my hero.

Um, you know, An amazing father. He was my best friend, talked to him almost every day. Uh, so his loss is, is catastrophic, if you will. Uh, as well as, um, uh, and, uh, monumental isn't the, isn't the word, but I think you can get what I'm saying. Like, it, it is now his, his passing now basically turns the page on a completely new book of my life, not even a new chapter, like a new book of my life.

And then a couple weeks ago, not even 30 days from my father's passing, I got laid off from my job. Um, and now I'm looking for another, another line of work, trying to get back to making money. Um, I went through this back in 2020 because I was let go in 2019 because of my drinking. Then the, the world caught a cold and had covid changed the job market.

I was unemployed. All of 2020, had to go [00:14:00] into a commission only role in 2021. Finally got back into the corporate world, and now I find myself. Looking again, you know, and because of the 2020 issue, like 401k's gone, there's no financial cushion. And you know, I'm the breadwinner, uh, and I have a couple kids and a mortgage and all of these things, and not a whole lot of money to guarantee my future comfort over past maybe two months right now.

So grief, the sense of failure, you know, from getting laid off, even though I know it's not me. I mean, the company's struggling right now at the point in my life I'm at, I'm 48 years old and, you know, you could say what you want to, but there's certainly age discrimination in the job market. So it's just a lot of headwinds right now, and it's a lot to deal with, you know, and thankfully, I, I am sober, so I'm very grateful for that.

And that's, I guess that was the, the source of me coming on was to kind of talk about, hey, you know, you get, we get sober, but it's not always hunky dory. Like the, the good news is we get to feel our feelings. The bad news [00:15:00] is, is we get to feel our feelings. Our feelings. Yeah. , you know, and throughout this entire process, like I haven't, I haven't really thought about a drink.

I'll say that. It was a very, it's been very fleeting thoughts because as soon as it pops in, I can identify it as not wanting to drink. I want oblivion, right? I want oblivion. Cause I don't wanna feel the way that I'm feeling right now. Mm-hmm. , right? And then I, then I look and go, well, that, that's not a drink.

That's, that's, that's escapism. And what else can I do to not feel the way that I'm feeling? And there's multiple things. And I mean, you, I know that you guys use those tools. I don't wanna hijack everything here, uh, because you guys know me very well. I'm a talker. So I can continue to go and go and go. But, you know, we talk about meditation, that's one of those things.

It's like, just clear your head for a second. Take five minutes, take two minutes, take one minute and focus on your breathing. Journaling, you know, getting my thoughts out of my head and, and gratitude finding things that I'm grateful for because, I, I do have a lot [00:16:00] that I'm grateful for right now. One of those things that paramount thing is my sobriety, because every, without that, everything else is lost, man.

Everything else is lost. Wow, 

Host - Eric: man, Brian, that's a lot. That's a lot. And we drank to numb feelings. We drank to not have to deal with shit, and we, we drank to not feel our feelings and we get sober to feel our feelings. Wow. You're going through a lot, dude. And I mean, I, I commend you for all that you laid out and especially your tools that you're using in order to help yourself get through this.

And, and I, I'm glad that you're here and on here because I, I was gonna add, I feel like that in some ways this is an accountability as well by, by being here and talking about this in front of people, allows you to stay accountable with yourself. It certainly is. 

Guest - Brian: I mean, anytime I talk about my sobriety, it is a form of accountability.

Anytime I tell a new person, that I'm sober, that I quit drinking, that I'm, you know, [00:17:00] over three years sober. That's a form of accountability. You know, the term burning the ships have been used. You know, we use that in our online group. Um, a lot other folks may have heard it, but when you start to tell people, then it's harder to go back.

Right? And, and that is the beauty of it. Because I know for me, in my, in my substance abuse days, secrecy was paramount. I needed to make sure that nobody else understood how bad it was. And if I just, if everybody else was convinced that every, that everything was fine, then it didn't matter what I felt about myself.

Now, of course, those tables are flipped. I don't necessarily care so much about what other people think about me, as long as I can look myself in the mirror. Cause at one time I couldn't look myself in the mirror. 

Host - Taylor: When I'm listening to you talk about this stuff, the craziest thing happens inside of. Me because I'm also three and a half years away from alcohol and I have this new thing called empathy where I can actually get [00:18:00] outta myself and feel what somebody else is going through.

And from the bottom of my heart, I am so sorry for your loss and we've actually not talked about it in person. And I can tell you that I have yet to experience that loss with my father. But I came very, very close at one point in time and it was during my drinking days and while life throws daggers at us.

And while life continues to do life shit, we still have to move forward. And I have to tell you, I have nothing but admir. For where you're at and what you're choosing to do in the face of adversity, in the face of multiple challenges that you spoke of already, you are choosing to move forward and do different than what you did for years and years [00:19:00] and years.

And there's something to be said about that, that we need to pat ourselves on the back or somebody else needs to pat our back for us, which is another beautiful thing about this accountability thing, is it also gives the other person an opportunity to say, look, bro, life is a bitch, but luckily enough, it's equally a bitch across the board to everybody and we have to respond to it.

We can't fight the waves. All we can do is learn to surf. And sometimes those waves are death and, and sometimes those waves are losing a job and it doesn't make them. Hit any softer or change at all whatsoever. But we have a choice. And the choice is what can I change? What can I choose to do differently?

And where's the opportunity and where's the beauty from this? Where is something that, where's the silver lining? And I am [00:20:00] so grateful that you got to be sober with your dad and your life. I mean, it's 

Guest - Brian: honestly, my father was so proud of me. You know, when I went up for the services, you know, it was December 23rd.

December 24th, me and the kids got in the car early in the morning and headed up to Maryland so we could do with my mom and my sister, you know, for Christmas. Cause obviously it was c. and you're suffering this loss. And of course, you know, for all of us that are in recovery, the questions that may occur either directly to us or amongst our family and friends when we go through something like that is, is he gonna be okay?

Is this gonna make him drink again? Are you gonna be okay? Are you gonna drink again? And we know that like that's the rest of my life. , I understand that people are gonna question that. God forbid anything that happened to anybody in recovery. The first question is, mm, did he relapse? You know, that's just who we are.

But I knew at that moment, and when I talked to my sister, my sister said, Brian, I know you're fine, but you know, other people have said, and I said, [00:21:00] look, the thing about it is, is that there's a couple things. One, dad was so proud of my recovery. He got the CB sober for three years, and my mom has told me, she's like, he told everybody that you were in recovery and all the recovery stuff that you're doing, and that you're a recovery coach, and you're a CrossFit coach for, you know, a recovery organization.

And he was so proud of me. So I, I wouldn't, he, he certainly wouldn't want me to relapse because he passed away, right? Secondly, I don't necessarily know that I have another recovery in me, right? If I take a drink, I'm gonna immediately try to drink like I used to, and I'm, my body hasn't had that. I may very well die and I don't want to die.

Plus, I'm just, I'm really proud and I do not wanna suffer another hangover cuz god damn my hangovers were bad towards the end. Hell, that's why I would start drinking in the morning just to get rid of the hangover. I didn't wanna be drunk again. I just didn't wanna be, I just didn't wanna feel the way that I was feeling physically, so I knew very early, as soon as it happened, their drinking's not an option Now.[00:22:00] 

Man, did I want oblivion at times? God, it was so painful, and it still is, you know, I'm still, I'm accepting it, you know, there's still moments that hits me. I'm like, oh my God, my father's dead. I can't, I can't believe it. But I was lucky enough to have him for 48 years. And when you lose something, you get to reflect back on the beautiful moments of life and what they, you know, what, what somebody means to you.

So, sorry. Sorry. It's 

Host - Eric: understandable. Absolutely. Uh, I loved what you said there, you know, the, the idea that you got to have that the, the other beauty is you get to be present for your family through all of this and 

Guest - Brian: Yeah. 

Host - Eric: That was another thing. Yeah. And I remember, uh, when my mom passed at, uh, and I wasn't in sobriety yet.

I, I, but I was meditating, which was funny. I was into Eckhart Tole and everything else, and I had this friend who talked to me about during that time when my mom was passing, and she even said to me, just stay present. just stay present. And I had no idea what really that meant at the time until I got into [00:23:00] sobriety.

And I looked back at that. I'm like, I know now what she was saying. That idea of being present, even in those hard times, right? Even in that hard moment, you're gonna cherish that because you were there, you know? Mm-hmm. , and you felt it. And it wasn't, you weren't oblivious because you were fucked up. But I also, in the same respect, understand that other feeling, you know?

Like, I just wanna go and have oblivion so I don't have to think about these things. I get that too. And that's something we all did. That was our trigger, right? I, I was talking to somebody about this the other day, that whenever anything bad happens, you know, the, I mean, worst case obviously is somebody passing, but losing a job, right?

Or getting in an argument with a, a friend or a, a significant other, whatever our trigger is, let me go get a drink. You know, you have that thought and you go, well, where's that really gonna take me? You know? And I, and I think that's an important point here. As much as we wanna escape that feeling. We don't wanna escape that feeling because we wanna be present and we want, we want to know that [00:24:00] we were there for our family, we were there for the people that needed us, that are still here.

You're going through a lot and, and yeah, I'm sorry for your loss and I'm really sorry for the loss of a job and everything else, but you're, you're such an inspiration, you know, that show, to be able to show that it's doable, you know, you can, I mean, it's gonna be a struggle, but you can do it. So, I'm glad you're here.

I'm glad you're on this podcast with us and, and talking about this right now, 

Host - Taylor: and I think through all of this. A good thing to say is what Eric was saying last episode, is guys talking about their feelings. That's what this is. This is us shedding that shame and saying, look guys, this is where I'm at.

Mentally fucking accept it. Don't accept it. You know, believe it, don't believe it, or indifferent. Who gives a shit? I am going to speak my truth no matter how it sounds, just so then I can get the shit out of my head and over to somebody else. And believe it or not, if it's [00:25:00] somebody who's in the same situation as you or is dealing with the same stuff that you're dealing with, they'll be very, very quick to not judge and just be there and support.

For us guys, it's so fucking hard to get there. It's so hard to open that door and let somebody in for five seconds long enough for you to say, no, I'm not okay. But the tools that we gain and the strength that we gain through all of this is when life does happen to us and throws us a fucking curve ball that hits a square in the face, we respond immediately with the positive coping mechanism of connection, of reaching out, of choosing different, and through everything you were saying.

What I said earlier about my dad is when he was [00:26:00] diagnosed with cancer, I was way in my active drinking. My brother would always ask questions and he wanted to know more. . I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know this until later. But you know, a normal human being, if your father gets something like that, you want to know more, you want, you face it.

You go in and you say, what are the doctors saying? What's going on? How can I help? What do you need? I found out, and I didn't even call him. I didn't do anything. And in hindsight, looking back, what I did do was drink more. I thought I was fine. I thought I was okay. I drink more to oblivion because my addiction said, you know what, you need Taylor.

You need to go drink because society tells you to go drink in hardship. Society tells you to go drink when you win, when you lose [00:27:00] and win, you're ha when you're bored. And realistically, I was drinking to be a victim. And that was one of the biggest things I found out in my sobriety journey is I drank so much to become a victim of my own story.

Woe is me. My dad has cancer. Wo. That is the most selfish aspect of all of this. And so shameful because who admits that? Why would you want to go there? But I got sober. I started to do different, I started to be different and I lucked out because he went into remission. And I now get to have every Friday night conversations with my father.

I call him every single night and have those conversations with him. And I cherish them so much differently now because I have a new perspective on it. And it's a beautiful thing when we have the opportunity to [00:28:00] make those shifts. And we don't always get them. We have to count our blessings where we can.

I know some listeners out there right now, they didn't get those opportunities. They didn't get the chance to have those conversations. But it doesn't mean that we can't stop growing now and setting an example for ourselves and for something else down the road in the future. And that's also another beautiful thing is we can't change the past, but we can start changing it right here, right now, wherever we are.

This is a good jumping off. 

Guest - Brian: And that's the Living Amends, right? That's what they talk about. I mean, you know, the traditional 12 step programs that are out there, you know, they talk about making amends. You can't go to somebody and say, I'm sorry, how can I make this up to you? For a variety of reasons. But there's a way to make living amends.

And that is to not make that mistake again, to not hurt somebody in the same way, to live your life in such a way that you don't hurt someone again. So I think, I think living amends is perfect. 

Host - Eric: You know, a, and I would just add, [00:29:00] since we're telling story, the stories, and when I think about being present, so here I had this person telling me to be present for my mom.

We had to make this decision to discontinue something, and there was a time limit as to how long she would last after we discontinued it. So my brother and I left and we went right to the liquor store. And as we were in the liquor store, my brother gets a phone call that my mom had passed, and my brother looked at me, said, well, do you think we should go?

And I said, well, we're here already. Why don't we just go ahead and buy the beer we were gonna buy? And then we'll go. , and I think about that a lot now as to that was not being present. That was me taking care of my addiction that I needed above all, regardless of what the fuck was going on. I needed a drink and I was gonna make sure I had that part taken care of.

So I, by no means was I gonna let my brother walk outta the store without the beer that we were, we were gonna get. And to this day, I still, I think about that as that was just such a wrong way to be. So I'm always impressed with people that, um, could have that choice, [00:30:00] but don't make that choice. And having enough sobriety under your belt to, to really feel that, I think is important.

I mean, I think sometimes when we're early on, we might not feel that, but up to that point, you had three years or three plus years, so you already knew like, this isn't gonna help. You know, and that was a great starting point for you, being able to kind of help yourself get through those tough moments.

I'm sure. 

Guest - Brian: Yeah, I mean, right in that, that first year of sobriety, we go through a lot of FFTs, right? First fucking times. Oh, yeah. Um, now granted, you only have one first, second time when you lose a parent, uh, when you lose a, you know, your father, you know, and then you have a one first, second time when you lose your mother.

Uh, there ain't no second time. I, there were other deaths that I had in my family, whether they were cousins, uncles, aunts over my sobriety, but, uh, parents or a sibling, an immediate family member especially suddenly is a lot. Yeah. We know that as we go through certain things, we've talked about [00:31:00] this before in other forums, is your sobriety muscles, right?

You go to the gym and you do weightlifting and you bench press, and when you bench press, you tear small little tears in your muscles and then they grow back and you become stronger. When we go through something in our sobriety that we've never experienced sober, that we would normally reach for a drink and we don't reach for a drink, We build our sobriety muscles, we're making little tears because probably in the moments, our mind's going crazy and habitually we would reach for something and when we don't reach for it, we cause little tears and then they heal back up because we're creating new neural pathways for how we react to certain situations.

And luckily, I had built, you know, a bunch of neural pathways that helped me navigate the more, I guess, the reptilian brain, right? I've gotten past that. I've gotten past that monkey mind aspect of reaching for a drink to numb, reach for something to numb, reach, numb, numb, numb. [00:32:00] And instead it was feel, feel this, because that's the proper way that we process things.

Um, you were talking, Taylor, you were talking about guys, you know, expressing their feelings and talking about their feelings, and there was so much in that that I wanted to unpack. I couldn't agree more with you. Like I used to stifle everything down and it was like, Nope, nope. I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm doing great today.

I'm doing great today. And I'll tell you like in the last, you know, especially in the last 30 days since, you know, getting laid off and dealing with my father, people are, Hey, how you doing? I've been better. I'm not doing too good today. And sometimes people are like, I'm sorry to hear that. And they move on, right?

And that's okay. That's okay. At least I got it out. I'm not doing good. Other people say, I'm sorry to hear that, what's going on? Or they maybe may they, they may already know the story and what's going on, and then they say, let's talk about it. Or you know what, man, this is what I'm going through also, and I'm struggling right now.

And we have a moment that we're able to two guys sitting there saying, yeah, it [00:33:00] fucking sucks. And we're sitting there crying. I mean, there's, there's a guy that I'm very close to that, you know, in my fitness community and he's going through some stuff and he happened to ask me how I was doing one day, and I could see that his eyes were red.

I said, how are you doing? And all of a sudden he says, I'm not doing good. I said, come on. And we went behind closed doors and we had a nice 30 minute crying session talking about things and looking at the outside. Look, I'm an Army veteran. Pretty physically fit, pretty strong. This guy is very muscular.

You would think, man, these guys are, you know, macho, bad asses. And here we are crying and it's because we're allowed to cry. Like shit is hard sometimes. This is hard. This is a very hard phase of my life to go through the humbling experience of losing a job and having a, and struggling not to find a job at my age.

It's very humbling and sad to lose my father. That man that I looked up to for 48 years of my life, that shit is hard. And it's okay for me to cry and it's okay [00:34:00] for me to have bad days. And it's okay for me to say, I am not okay right now. I'm gonna be okay. But right at this moment, I am not okay. And unfortunately, I feel like that a lot, right.

But then we jump back to our tools that we talked about, and I say, okay, I'm not doing okay right now. And I'm not trying to stifle my feelings. I'm trying to feel those feelings, and I'm trying to cry. I'm, I'm famous for feeling like I need to cry. So I throw on some sad music. Dude, Sarah McLaughlin's in the arms of an angel will get me every single time dude.

And outta the throw on. And put it on repeat and just sob and 

Host - Taylor: sob and sob. You know what's so crazy about saying that though, is I actually, I know sometimes when I need to cry, but something in me, I just, I don't, and I don't know if it's a level of societal conditioning mixed in with, you know, Uh, me being deployed to forward operating [00:35:00] areas and experiences I've had or what, but all I know is that the older I've gotten, the harder it is for me to just let out a good cry.

And legit, when you said that, I immediately was like, I can't tell you how many times where I've actually turned on a sad song, just so I could fucking ignite the emotion to come out of me knowing that I needed to be vulnerable, but something was resisting. Some unconscious bias inside of me was resisting itself and saying, no, you can't do this.

You can't do this. And I was like, all right, motherfucker, I'm gonna turn this shit on cuz I know it's gonna work. 

Guest - Brian: I've heard the term emotion defined as energy and motion, right? So when we have those emotions and we're not expressing them, it's pint up energy in our body, right? And sometimes we just need a catalyst.

to allow that to flow out because just like we were saying, like it, it's all of this stuff. It needs to, it needs to get out of us, whether it's anger, whether it's, you know, sadness, whether it's [00:36:00] happiness, whether whatever that emotion is, if we stifle it, it affects us physically and it affects us mentally.

So when we, when we allow it to get out, we allow that energy to have motion, emotion to get out of our bodies. And sometimes Sarah McLaughlin is really good at doing that for us. . , 

Host - Taylor: I think that saying your shame, because I think a lot of it too, sometimes, depending on the subject that you're, you know, referencing whenever you're in those high emotion states, if you're letting it pent up, if you're letting it go and go and, and grow and grow and grow, then you can almost.

Completely ignore why you're having that emotion at all whatsoever. And then you're in complete and total ignorance to it. You're not even awake enough mentally to allow yourself to even get to that place, which is why we have those knee-jerk gut reactions of I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. Right? To the point where we actually start believing in ourselves until we wake up one day and we say, no, I'm actually fucking not fine at all, and I don't know [00:37:00] why.

And then you stop and you search and you realize that it's actually something that you're really ashamed to ever even admit to the world because you're scared that they're going to judge you for it. Yes. And that you are not allowed to feel the way you feel. Right? Like for instance, like I actually know somebody personally who recently just got fired from their job and he has not gone out to look for another job.

And it's been over a month and after a while of me building a resentment, cuz that's what I do. I asked him, finally, I said, wait a minute, you know, and I said this to myself. I said, wait a minute. Hold the phone. Taylor, shift this for a second. Pretend that you're actually talking about alcohol for a second.

What would be something to drive somebody to do these types of actions where they don't go out and get a job right now? And I, I, I asked him, I said, where are you at mentally with all of this? And he actually sat there for a second and he couldn't figure out, he couldn't word what he was trying to, he couldn't identify his emotions.

And I saw it in [00:38:00] him. I saw the twist and the turn, and the male, I can't admit things. So I tried to hand him an olive branch from my experience in the recovery world. And I said, do you want to go back to work? And he paused and he said, no. And I said, how do you feel when you just said that? And he said, better.

I said, we both know you need to go back to work, right? And he's like, yeah. I said, but for now, living the fact that. You don't wanna meet society's demand and you don't wanna work. Can you admit that to yourself? And he's like, yeah. I said, how much relief do you feel right now? He's like, A lot. And that's part of getting past the shame of whatever we're g going through in those moments.

Right. It doesn't have to be losing a job in that scenario, yada yada. It can be admitting something that we feel like we can't admit to the world or to ourselves, that it actually exists. And then once we do, we can move past it because the door is actually open now. [00:39:00] 

Host - Eric: Right. I, I agree with everything that's been said.

I was just gonna add in terms of, you know, how we're conditioned as men. You know, we're conditioned to be tough, we're conditioned to have the answers, we're conditioned to solve the problems, and we believe that in our heart of hearts, and that if we show anybody a weakness of crying, a weakness of of, of that we are in fear that people will.

Look at us differently, we'll will write us off. You know? And I think a lot of us, whether we were conditioned at home that way by our own families growing up, or society, you know, going to school and the other kids, the other guys at school were tough. So I gotta be tough. We have that going on in our heads.

And so in fear, I know I, and I still sometimes to this day get nervous when people know that I'm not right. And I let them know I'm not right. Like I find myself sometimes holding, trying to hold some of it back, not [00:40:00] give it all to out there. I'm getting better about it, but I, I know, and I know that's just conditioning.

I, and I know something has been part of my life for so long that it's gonna take a while. Like Brian was saying earlier about the neuro pathways, you know, I'm still working on that part of the neuro pathways of being okay with not being okay. , you know, and I think that's, that's what Brian's talking about.

That's what we're all talking about, is that as men, it's okay to not be okay. And it's also okay to let people know that, you know, I love the story you said, Brian, and you talked about, about that guy at the gym and that then you guys went and talked and you said on the outside, everybody look at us as, oh, there's two tough guys.

You know, nothing probably bothers them. . When in reality you, you're like anybody else. You have emotions, you feel things. That's part of life. And I think that's where we have to get to, right, is that it's okay to feel emotions. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to cry. It's [00:41:00] okay to be angry. It, and it's okay for everybody to see that.

And the beauty to me of recovery is that tool, that teaching of that is such a big part of this. Think about the early days of recovery. You know, like all the feelings are coming in, right? And we're like, whoa, what? What the fuck? Well, why is all this happening? And I remember so many times people saying to me, you're right where we're supposed to be.

Just keep going. You're right where we're supposed to be. And I would, I would argue that we're right where we're supposed to be. And that Brian is leading the way. It's not all rainbows and butterflies. You know it. There are tough times and that's when we're test. . 

Guest - Brian: Yeah. And I think when we say society teaches us this, I think we really need to, men need to own the way that men don't handle their feelings.

Similarly to, I think that, I think that women are the ones that put pressure on women physical appearance. Cuz most of the time if you ask a, a man, uh, what kind of, what he's attracted to in a woman, it's totally different from what a woman [00:42:00] thinks that she needs to look like. Whether that's skinny, whether that's this or that.

Right? That's right. I think that's, that's the, the pressure that women put on each other. It may not be overt, it may just be in their mind, this is what I have to look like for other women to think that I'm okay or whatever. And I think it's the same thing for guys, right? Whether it's not, whether it's, whether it's overt or not, I have yet to really run across any of my male friends that are like, dude, suck it up.

Just knock it off. Now they may say that jokingly, and I can tell it jokingly. because they'll turn around and be like, no, man, I'm, I'm serious. I'm sorry that you're going through that. Man. If you ever need to talk, let me, you know, let me know. I never run across resistance from another guy, but we think we're gonna get that.

Oh, they think they're gonna think I'm less than they, they are gonna think that I'm, that I'm wimp, that I'm, that I can't handle my stuff. And in reality, that's not really what it is. I feel like all of us men are sitting there hoping that someone opens up to us so we can open up to someone else too. All I'm saying is, I guess, you know, [00:43:00] this is, we're doing it right now.

Any of our listeners out there, any of our male listeners, like, take the chance, man. Talk to your one, one of your buddies. Be vulnerable and they will be vulnerable back. Great 

Host - Taylor: point. and who's, who are they? Right? Like whenever we say they aren't going to understand, guys aren't going to do this. Whenever we take this holistic approach and put everybody in the same box, we're limiting ourselves.

Right? Because we're in the box too. Yeah. And if we say all men are going to do this, then you are going to actively seek out men doing exactly that. And that's all you're going to see is, I can't talk to this about whatever, because I'm a guy. They're a guy, and therefore mission accom. Uh, then we can't have a conversation.

But if you go into it going. No, I can have a conversation. Vulnerability is a part of me, and I'm not ashamed of it, and I am going to just speak my truth. That rawness is [00:44:00] actually turning the tables in a lot of different areas across the world where that's actually being looked as strength, not being a little bitch or whatever you wanna call it, it's actually being looked at as a form of strength.

And even now, oddly enough, when I see a guy who is struggling through this stuff and can't seem to get their emotions in check or figured out or processed, I look at them like a sick child where I'm kind of like, oh, like let me try and help you through this right now. I don't wanna berate you and I don't wanna laugh at you.

I wanna help you. Like you are really struggling with something that I can, I've got tools like, come over here. Like, let me help you real quick. 

Host - Eric: I actually think when I see that I was, you know, it was funny you brought that up, Taylor or cuz as you were talking about that, I was thinking about that. When I see a guy willing to show his emotions, I'm in awe of that.

You know, cuz I'm like, right, that guy, that guy [00:45:00] is, is secure in himself because he's able to do that. At least that's what my brain is telling me. And, and then my brain kicks me around a little bit. Like, you need to do that, you need to be more like that. So to Brian's point, I think once you are able to be vulnerable in front of another guy, that g gives that guy permission to be vulnerable in front of you.

And he's looking for that. One of the 

Guest - Brian: things that I had to come to a realization for and, and it's not just about these emotions, like we can, we can take this and put this in any context and that is a lot of times we project our own moral failings or our own personality person, uh, or character defects, I should say.

One to others, right? Yep. So, I have, I have learned in my recovery that when I had that thought, like, you know, I, I shouldn't open up because they're gonna judge me. I have to look and go, wait a minute, Brian, is that because you may judge somebody if they're gonna open up to you? And that [00:46:00] happened early on in recovery that I started thinking, is this me projecting my character defect onto somebody else?

And the only way that I figure that out is, uh, if I is, if I'm vulnerable, and I, and I don't make the assumption that they're gonna behave in a certain way and just simply observe how they behave. And I think that it was, and when we're talking specifically about emotions, I probably would've judged. Guys for being vulnerable prior to my recovery and prior to these last several years, just because I was in a different mindset.

I was, I was controlled by my ego. You know, Eric, you were talking about Eckhart Tole and you know, a New Earth was probably a, it was an extremely profound book because it kind of like defined and woke me up to be like, oh my God, my ego is what controls me. Yep. Um, and when you start shedding that, you start realizing that you're projecting a lot of your own character defaults on other people.

Yep. Especially in these emotional times. 

Host - Eric: Absolutely. I agree 

Host - Taylor: with that. My [00:47:00] ego is not my amigo . It is not my amigo. My ego is not my amigo. And I mean, we need to have a little bit of ego. Not all ego is bad because we'd be dead if we didn't have an ego, a desire to live and a desire to identify with ourselves and the world around us.

However, that's. From what I've learned so far where it should have stopped and it never did. It continued way much further than that. And the process of recovery for me has been an endless process of shedding my ego five seconds at a time. Because if I don't focus on it, I'm right back in it. 

Guest - Brian: That goes to understanding what the ego is trying to teach me in that moment.

And that goes to like my situation right now, like instead of thinking, oh my God, this is happening to me. Mm-hmm. , I think, okay, this is happening for me. And even though it feels like it sucks right now, cuz it sucks right now, what am I supposed to learn from this? How am I supposed to grow from this? What, when I get through [00:48:00] this, I'm going to be able to look back on lessons?

What are those lessons? And let me, let me be open to learning those now. Uh, even if they're subtle, even if I don't go, oh, this is exactly what I'm supposed to learn right now. Just be open to learning and changing my mindset about things. Cuz you know, everything happens for me, not to me. . So how am I supposed to grow from this?

Host - Eric: I love that. That's great. Um, I was just talking to a group of people a little bit earlier before that we came on, and I you brought it up, Brian. So I, I wanted to talk about this too, was the idea of honoring your truth. It's okay to be who we are and it's okay to be flawed, and it's okay that we're still learning and we're still trying to figure it out.

And I love what you just said there. It's like, well, what is, what, what am I learning here? What, what is it that I'm supposed to get out of this moment as much as it sucks, and I would never want this to happen, it's happened. So now what am I gaining from this? What can, or what can I gain from this? And what a healthy way to try to look [00:49:00] at it, you know, is say, Hey, okay, this, what am I gonna get out of this?

Um, and what, how's this going to serve me moving forward in my sobriety, but also in my life? Just with, in raising my family and, and dealing with my, you know, all of this is happening to me, is happening for me to learn. . So what am I learning? And, and I love that. And, and it's so hard to get there, there sometimes cuz there's so much going on.

We get so caught up in that, right? The minutiae of all that, that those feelings and all that stuff that's going on and all the things that have to be done and, and we kind of get in through those constructs, right? Like, okay, well in order to have a house and all this, I gotta get a job and so I gotta find this job.

And now that's consuming me. And, and then our ego kicks in. Well, but I need a certain job that pays a certain amount of money because I have to have this kind of house and I gotta do this and I gotta do that. And all of a sudden we're stuck in this place. Right? This, I think it was both of you were talking about the box, right?

We're kind of stuck in that box and, and we put ourselves there. , anybody else? So I think [00:50:00] this is a great conversation about all of that, 

Host - Taylor: and it also talks about the metamorphosis that we go through in recovery. When we go from a state of grief which vibrates at a certain frequency and we work our way up the chain, even through to anger, which might vibrate at a higher frequency, then we can actually start to see our forward progress to what we're resisting and what we're fearing.

Because when we're in those states, it has a lot to do with, well, now where do I go from here? A feeling of lost. And when I feel lost, I feel afraid. And when I feel afraid, then I am, you know, maybe angry at the situation and going through that process and getting through to the end goal of acceptance.

Where we're no longer resisting what the world is offering to us, and [00:51:00] we're just allowing things to exist the way that they are in the form that they show up in, and understanding that we can't control how others or how the universe decides to act. All I can do is look at my actions, my side of the street and my response to the universe.

You know, these things are not happening to me. As Brian was saying, how are, how am I going to flip the script and look at it from a new lens? The lens of recovery. 

Host - Eric: So, Brian, I would ask this question to you in somebody who's been in recovery now for three plus years, and now you're going through such a huff thing, family-wise and, and job-wise and everything else, if you were to be able to give anybody wisdom of where you're at right now or what you feel is the way to handle these kinds [00:52:00] of things, what, what would 

Guest - Brian: you say?

It's okay to feel like things suck, but we have to find the positive in life all the time. And when things seem overwhelming for me, and they have been, you know, and this isn't me, right? This is my recovery coach on Monday. He asked me if I could be part of. Uh, if I could facilitate an outreach at one of our recovery centers here in Greenville.

And I said, honestly, I'm probably not the beacon of happy, joyous, and free right now, , so you probably don't want me facilitating. And he said, Nope. Totally understandable. Do you need some time with me? And I said, yes, I do. I need to talk to you. And he said, when? And this was on a Sunday night. And I said, tomorrow morning I need, I need time.

And then we went through it. He's like, well, what are you doing? And then, cause I was going over just how, how overwhelmed I am about everything in life, right? Because one thought triggers five more thoughts, which triggers 10 more thoughts. And before I know it, I'm six months down the road and me and my kids are homeless [00:53:00] right in my mind.

And he, and so he said, start, start taking little bites. He's like, you're not gonna be able to eat an elephant in one gulf, but you can take small little bites at a time. . And so that's what it was. It was, you know, okay, well I'm gonna look for jobs until 11 o'clock, and then I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna rake leave.

I'm gonna rake leaves for an hour because I never did this fall, and now I feel bad about myself. Cause I never took care of my yard. Well, this week I've worked several hours in my yard. It looks a little bit better, feel a little bit better about myself. Got some sunshine on me. Got a little bit of vitamin D.

You guys know, I mean, I'm pretty, pretty fitness active. So went to the gym numerous times, got good workouts in, and did lip, lip things that then I can look back and go, okay, I did accomplish stuff because o otherwise, when I sit there and I sit overwhelmed, I sit in front of my computer and I just churn and churn and churn and churn.

And by the end of the day I'm like, what did I even accomplish [00:54:00] today? Like I didn't do anything and, and this. , I've raked leaf, I've cleaned my flower beds. You know, I, I've done these things I can look back on. So I would say that wisdom is start breaking it down into small steps. And it doesn't have to be things that move you to one mission, right?

My mission right now, my main mission is to get a job, but I did things like clean my yard. And why? Because it made me feel good and I needed to feel good. I needed to feel like I wasn't failing at everything. So find some things that make you feel good and do those things as long as they don't involve drugs or alcohol.

wait a minute. I mean, that's overarching pee here, right? Just don't involve drugs or alcohol. Wait 

Host - Taylor: to kill my buzz. Oh, I love 

Host - Eric: that. I love all of that. And so I gotta say the cliche, just do the next right thing. Just do the next. Right. I, 

Guest - Brian: while I agree with you, sometimes it's hard to figure out what the next right thing is, and that's why we were talking about sharing with other people.

I said to [00:55:00] my recovery coach, yes, I need time with you. And maybe it's not a recovery coach, maybe it's a friend. Maybe it's somebody else in recovery to say, I need to talk to you because I need to get this out. And then those people are the ones that can help us and go, well, what make? What would make you feel good right now?

Well, I'd like to take my dog for a walk. So go take your dog for a walk, right? Go get some 

Host - Taylor: sunshine. And funny you should say, do the next right thing because I can't tell you how many times like a sponsor has said that to somebody. And then the next meeting you go into, the sponsor is bitching about how their sponsor said, just do the next right thing motherfucker.

What's the next right thing? So actually, someone said something. , don't do the next right thing, do the next kind thing. Because we all know how to be kind, but we don't always know what right is. And I was like, I like that. That changes. It just enough for me to go, now wait a minute, if I go take my dog for a walk, I'm being kind to myself and to my dog.

Whereas being, you know, what's, what's right? Well, I mean, [00:56:00] it's also right for me to sit on the couch and eat a thousand potato chips and drink beer. That's right. You know, for me. So it's an interesting way of flipping that a little 

Guest - Brian: bit. Also, you know, find something to be of service to somebody else because there, it's too, it's twofold there, right?

So you get to not think about your own problems for a second. And it is a little, going back to the ego, when we do think, when we do nice things for other people, it makes us feel good about ourselves. Yes, we, we can try to say that it's selfless and altruistic all we want. , but it makes us feel good. You go work in a soup kitchen and you're feed needy people, it kind of makes you feel good about yourself, right?

Yeah. So go help somebody else, whether that's somebody in, in recovery, um, you know, go to a meeting and find somebody that needs to be talked to, exchange numbers. Go for a walk. Hold the door for somebody, you know? Yeah. Help an old lady across the street unless she's on a segueway. Then don't, don't get, don't get in front of her segue.

how about that segue ? 

Host - Eric: That was, I like it. [00:57:00] Boom. That was great. That was great. No, I was just gonna say too, I, I, I agree with you on that, vol, because I volunteer at a mission and, and I help with, uh, like serving meals and it's so. awesome for me because it brings me back to, you know, but kind of by the grace of God, right?

The, there go, I, I, I could be there. And so I, I, it takes me down a notch of my own ego and takes me down to like, you know, I think I have all, you know, I don't have this and I don't have that and I don't have the other thing, but look at this guy. You know, this guy's sitting here and he's trying to get his shit together and he's sitting in this mission and he's eating food that was donated and we are serving him and we're helping him have a better day cuz he's eating a hot meal.

How, how much more could I, I mean, that is what it's all about. So I, I totally agree with you. I think we get out of our heads that way and getting out of our heads sometimes is the best thing to do. So is that your 

Host - Taylor: tool, Eric? 

Host - Eric: [00:58:00] Well, that's one of my tools. What you mean to volunteer? Yeah, absolutely. 

Host - Taylor: Awesome.

My tool is meditation. If you haven't tried it, go try it. . If you've never thought about trying it, Taylor's telling you to fucking go try it. . And if you use the language, you, the listener, or you guys here, which I don't think it's you guys here. If you use the language I can't, then I guarantee you will be right.

If you say, I will try, then honestly, meditation's a practice. It's not perfect. It's not pretty. It is just taking conscious moments to be mindful and to allow the brain to do whatever it needs to do for 10 minutes. Try that. That's my tool. 

Guest - Brian: Meditation is one, is almost like weight loss, right? Because when you start exercising, cutting [00:59:00] calories, of course you're gonna hop on the scale all the.

and I never even step on a scale. I look in the mirror, do I like what I see in the mirror? Right? Um, because I, I weigh the same amount now that I weighed two years ago when I began my CrossFit journey. But I look differently. I wear a different size pants. My shirts fit differently, yet the number of the scale is the same number, right?

So, but my point is, is that we don't necessarily, you don't go in and work out at the gym and all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, I just lost 20 pounds. Look at that. Ow, right? It's the same thing with meditation. You're not gonna meditate one time for five minutes and be like, okay, I found enlightenment.

But what, with weight loss and with meditation, you'll go for a while and you'll keep going and you won't see anything, and then it'll click, you'll look in the mirror and you'll be. . Oh my gosh, I see it. I wait, look at that. Oh my gosh, I look great in these pants. I look great in their shirt. Right. Same [01:00:00] thing with meditation, because you'll go through and then two, three weeks into it you'll think, wow, I'm really peaceful right now.

And that's the meditation. So it's a cumulative effect over time. So the first time you sit down, you're gonna be like, oh my God, I, I failed at meditation. There is no failing at meditation. Right. A little bit at a time. A little bit at a time. My biggest tool for me, and I, and I loop back to the, the weight loss, cause it's not necessarily weight loss, but that is fitness.

Um, you know, I, I began a CrossFit journey a couple years ago and have competed. I have not placed high. I'm not saying that I'm good at competing. Um, but you know, I'm also 48 years old and I'm competing against 30 year olds. So, you know, it's, and I spent 20 years beating myself up with drugs and alcohol, uh, and cigarettes.

Uh, so, um, still building it, but it is one of my escapes. because I can go in and in the middle of a CrossFit workout, they are so intense that I'm, I'm able to not think about my problems. I'm only [01:01:00] thinking about breathing and doing another rep. And let's jump on top this box again, or let's clean this, this weight again and let me just get through this workout, you know, and just one rep at a time, one breath at a time.

and then I get through it. So that's one of my major tools. Um, and I have an organization like the Phoenix Multi-Sport that, that allows me to do that. You know, we had talked about this and, you know, not, not huge plugging or anything, but in the recovery community, like I've found the Phoenix and it has so many diverse activities, whether it's rock climbing, yoga, for me, it's CrossFit.

I coach for them. I, I'm a volunteer coach, and anybody can come to the class. 40, 48 hours of sobriety. That's all you need to, it's, in any event, doesn't cost a dime. And we do so many different things that there's a niche for everybody. because we need to get out of ourselves, right? We need to find some activity and we need to have fun while we're sober.

Cause that was the biggest thing when I was actively drinking use. I thought, how am I gonna enjoy life if I can't have a [01:02:00] drink? How am I gonna go to a, a football game? How am I going to go to a cookout? How am I gonna have any fun in life? Cause I always have to have alcohol. And then what I've realized is that a alcohol was always stifling because I never remembered my good times.

Uh, and I'm present and I know when to leave and I know how to act and I know how to not offend people and getting around a community of people that are like-minded and that we're just there to work out. We're just there to climb these little holes in an indoor climbing gym or an outdoor, you know, climb or a hike up a mountain.

We're just there to spend time together and talk. You know, there's, there's, that's medicin. And for me, the Phoenix kind of introduced me and allowed me to begin coaching CrossFit.

Host - Taylor: The Phoenix also has an app that can, anybody can download and you can become a part of. I believe that it also shows [01:03:00] events that are occurring near your area or in a city near you, and it doesn't have to actually be a physi, uh, a Phoenix gym, even though I do know. Personally, there is a Phoenix gym, an actual Phoenix gym, completely free.

All the only requirement is 48 hours of recovery from your substance, whatever it is. And it's in downtown Denver. But they also are available in a lot of places that you wouldn't know that they are without actually looking for their Phoenix symbol or, um, just going up to the counter of whatever gym you're a part of and asking them if they have a Phoenix program that is being worked there because.

individuals can bring Phoenix programs to local gyms. And one way to find out about that is to go and ask your gym if that's a thing there, or if you wanna become a part of it, you know, reach out to the Phoenix and see if they'll say, yeah, I want to be a part of that gym. [01:04:00] Let's try uh, try and get out there and, and get the program started.

So I think that's just an amazing, 

Guest - Brian: it's all volunteer driven, like you said. Right. I mean, I'm a volunteer for them. I don't get paid. Um, right. And every, you know, a volunteer runs the rock climbing a volunteer, uh, does, does the yoga flows, you know, a vol. We do creative writing, we do meditation, we do hikes.

You know, and it's all volunteer driven. And you're right, there's a, there's a very nice gym in downtown Denver. Um, and I've been out there, Taylor, I've visited you, right when I've come out for different Phoenix functions out there. I got my, my level one CrossFit certification out there in Denver. They have a really nice, they have a really nice gym in Boston, up in Massachusetts.

Eric, there's Phoenix organizations. They're in New Jersey too. So I would, I would encourage you to look at it. Taylor, you said that there's, there's an app you can, and it tells you what, what events are near you. Uh, and you would be surprised. There's just a lot of fun stuff to do. And if, you know, sometimes we sit there and we're like, oh my gosh, man, what am I gonna do this weekend?

Especially in early recovery, right? What am I gonna do this weekend? [01:05:00] All the, all my friends, quote unquote, I'm using air quotes for if you're just listening, you know, I, I realized a lot of my friends were my drinking buddies. Um, they're all going out this weekend because, well, you know, Sunday is, is the Super Bowl.

right? We have Super Bowl parties in our recovery communities, and we get together, and yet sometimes we, we do a, a, you know, brackets or, or you know, pool just like, uh, just like we do at the old drinking parties, man. And it's, so I would encourage anybody to look for that. There's, and there's multiple, it's not just a Phoenix.

There's, there's other organizations too, um, that are sober active communities. That's what it's, that's what we basically call it a sober, active community, um, to get us out of the house, get us out in a community of like-minded people to, to enjoy ourselves. 

Host - Taylor: Well, that is just fantastic. And I'll say this before we close things up, which is, I just noticed that the three things we [01:06:00] all went with for tools actually is body, mind, and spirit.

We hit the three legs. To create a solid sobriety table. I think that's pretty darn awesome. I 

Host - Eric: lo I thought this is a great episode. Thank you Brian, so much for being on here, uh, especially with all that you're going through. Um, but I think what you had to say, uh, is so important and I think you helped a lot of people today, uh, with that.

Um, you certainly helped me that, that's for sure. Uh, I, I, uh, have a, a, a huge respect for, for somebody who's going through a lot of stuff and is still able to stay sober and still able to stay on the path. And, uh, appreciate you man. I'm glad you're here. 

Guest - Brian: Well, I appreciate the time and, uh, to be able to, you know, get it outta my head, share my story, maybe, maybe share some, uh, hope and wisdom to others.

Uh, and you guys are my friends. So it's been nice to talk to you guys for the last hour. Brian, 

Host - Taylor: from me to [01:07:00] you. Thank you so much for being on the show and for all of our listeners out there, his episodes are still available. Hopefully he'll come back one day, look it up, get on your app. Wherever you're listening to us, you can listen to Brian and go look at Recovery Rising.

Yes, that's correct. I think it was originally haw talk, but it changed into recovery Rising. Go check it out wherever you podcast. We love you all and have a happy, happy rest of your Friday. 

Guest - Brian: See ya. 

Host - Eric: Hey, thank you all for listening to the show. We 

Host - Taylor: really appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we would not be here without you.

Host - Eric: New episodes Air every Friday morning. This show is available wherever you podcast. 

Host - Taylor: You can join the conversation throughout the week by following us on Instagram and TikTok by searching at sober the letter n Shameless. If you would like to be a guest on our show or would [01:08:00] simply like to send us an email about this week's topic, then please email us@sobershamelessgmail.com.

You can find all these links and more in the show notes, 

Guest - Brian: interested in supporting the show. Then buy us a cup of coffee. That's a drink we can enjoy without regret. Just simply navigate to buy me a coffee.com/sober and shameless. That's S O B E R N S H A N E L E S S, and you can give us a cup if you'd like.

We'll send you a sober and shameless sticker in the mail and post a photo on our Instagram thanking you for your support. Woo. 

Host - Taylor: And finally shed that 

Host - Eric: shame. Don't forget to take care of yourself today. We love you and you are worth it. 

Host - Taylor: Coming in regular, 

Guest - Brian: coming in hot.[01:09:00] [01:10:00]