Episode 10 - Neuroplasticity and Recovery Ft. Erik

Episode 10 - Neuroplasticity and Recovery Ft. Erik.

Show notes from the hosts:
In this episode we are joined by Erik! We all know each other and Erik was at Taylor's wedding.
We talk about trying new things, which leads us to our topic
Eric introduces topic. Adjustments we make in our Recovery practice
Definition of the words Sober and Recovery.  It's in recovery that we learn the balance that sobriety is trying to give us.
How did we start in recovery?
How do we sustain it?
How is it part of our daily lives?
Erik's two times of stopping drinking.
Erik talks about his last drink and going to AA
Go to rehab drunk cause they won't take you sober.
Taylor realizing that we are his people
We are like minded and connect on that level.
Eric and Taylor talk about early days of getting into sobriety.
Ego tells us we don't have a problem
Meetings do not have to be AA.
Went because of the problem but stayed for the solution
Erik: Familiar faces are there for the same reason you are.
Early tools
Erik's tools: jar of affirmations, play the tape forward
Taylor tools: Going to a meeting, listening. From meetings to podcast to therapist. Things we do can be used in recovery.
Eric: Getting into nature, we are a part of all of it, playing the tape forward.
Erik talks about the chaos of drinking
Taylor talks about things change as we get sober
Taylor said that acknowledging defeat, we go through the ups and downs of recovery.
Eric: We start to see our cycles and we can change it.
Erik: how he incorporates physical activity in his later Recovery. Talks about the evolution of his recovery
Taylor talks about 1st year-don't drink.  People take on too much in first year
Taylor shares a diagram Mind and body .
Neuroplasticity definition how our brains can reconnect
We have power over choices. Not a victim
Keeping a journal documents
APP: Penzu for journal notes
Recap: tools, how do we look at the rest of our lives.
How do we incorporate into our lives?
Taylor: The Promises of AA, read
Erik: Things becomes routine. How scary times become routine
Final thank you to Erik for being on
Host's and Show Social Media
sobershameless@gmail.com
IG: @sobernshameless
Tiktok @sobernshameless
buymeacoffee.com
klingercrafted
ericandrewcoaching12@gmail.com
IG: @e_acoach
TiktoK @ericandrewcoaching
FB: Eric An

Transcript

S&S10

Host - Taylor: [00:00:00] Sober and Shameless, episode 10.

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. I'm Taylor Klinger. And I'm Eric. Andrew. And this is Sober and Shameless shedding the Shame, the podcast that flips the script on what it means to live a sober life. In each episode 

Host - Eric: of Sober and Shameless, the host, along with the occasional guests, will pick a topic to shed their shame about, explore ideas on how to grow through those challenges and provide organic, lighthearted, honest, and unprofessional commentary about their experiences with addiction, strength through recovery and life and sobriety.

Host - Taylor: Well, I guess we better go ahead and get started. So good morning and happy Friday everybody. 

Host - Eric: Hey, hey, 

Host - Taylor: happy Friday. It's a damn good day to be. We [00:01:00] have so much good content to cover today and I'm so excited for our guests. So let's just go ahead and roll right into it. Let me introduce our guest today, Eric from 

Guest - Erik: Flo rda.

Well, I wanna say thank you so much for asking me to come on you guys. I really appreciate it. This is like so exciting. I feel like I haven't seen you guys in a while. It's, I, you know that wedding picture is like, I found that picture and I was like, I gotta post this cuz there's so many people in this picture that have gotten me and helped me through this four years or at least like been there.

So it's been quite the journey. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah. And Eric, it's so good to have you on our show with us today as well. And as I was kind of saying in the pre-show, two out of the three people on this show today are named Eric and I am experiencing fomo. So for today's episode, my name is Eric as well. Uh, Eric also. My name is Eric also.

He was actually at my wedding. When was that? Was that in 2022? [00:02:00] 

Guest - Erik: Yes. Because I met you in 2021. When did I That's frightening 

Host - Eric: that 

Host - Taylor: you don't know when you got married. . That's scary. . 

Guest - Erik: I took out the cozy from the cupboard to look cuz I was like, wait, when did they get Mar in 2022. But I met you guys in 2021 when I just came to 

Host - Taylor: Denver just to see.

Yeah, exactly. And it was so awesome having a big group represented in the sobriety community. At that wedding we had sober drinking options. Yeah. Which I think other people called Juice. No, I'm kidding. . And then we took a big photo of all of us together. It was so awesome and such a rewarding experience.

Yeah. And I'm just so grateful and thankful to have. So many amazing friends from so many different walks of life in the world of recovery. And that's another contributing factor to why I wanted to come on the show and, and chit chat with us for an hour. So thank you for coming on the show. I, even though, I think, when did I ask you to come on the show?

Like what, 10 hours ago this 

Guest - Erik: morning? Well, you know, we, we'll probably get into it, but you know, my new routine is like, try [00:03:00] and go to bed around seven, eight and then get up at two 30 at three and go to the gym. So I was at the gym at four and I did an hour and a half today with like 15 minute massage. So, you know, it was like lunchtime when you asked me and all, you know, like, what 9:00 AM You're like, Hey, can you come on at, uh, 1230?

I was like, uh, 

Host - Taylor: that's how we roll. Yeah, that works. That's how we roll . That is how we roll. Speaking of Eric. Eric, how are you doing man? 

Host - Eric: I'm doing great. I'm doing really great. You've 

Host - Taylor: had a lot of shows and stuff recently, right? 

Host - Eric: Yeah, I've been working on a show. I'm trying to. Get back into things that I was doing or things that I had kind of put off to the side prior to going into recovery.

And so doing, working on a show is something I have not done since pre covid. So this was kind of new and I just took on the least amount of work that I had to do to be involved in the show. And it's funny, it feels like it's a lot. What's great about it [00:04:00] is having the experience and, and allowing myself to have the experience of trying things and seeing how they might fit or not fit.

Into my recovery world. And one thing that I, I really do try to be conscious of is I'm trying new things, is, okay, how does this fit into everything else I'm doing? Does this allow me exactly what I'm looking for and wanting in terms of an activity or in terms of growth? And I can kind of do all that today.

I was never able to do that in my addiction. 

Host - Taylor: That's awesome. I think that's what you were telling me we kind of wanted to talk about today anyways, right? Is Yep. Exploring things that we start adopting in recovery. Right? Right. This 

Host - Eric: topic came out of listening to a podcast. The idea is adjustments we make to our recovery practice.

And I'd kind of like to start off with it in terms of just giving a few approaches to this, the way that I look at it, so. And both of you have heard me [00:05:00] talk about this before. I kind of have a, a definition for sobriety and then a definition for recovery. I believe they both work together, but I also believe one comes after the other.

In my opinion, sobriety is really, um, the, the concept of staying sober, right? So I just wanna read from Webster's dictionary sober, and I like their fourth definition of sobers as well. Reasoned and balanced. All right? So sobriety, we tend to look at sobriety from the perspective of staying away from a drink or staying away from a drug.

But what that allows us is that to build that balance, right? So obviously the early days of sobriety, we are completely hyperfocused on, I just don't wanna drink today, right? I just don't want to drink today. What do I gotta do not to drink today? And we get all these ideas that are thrown at us and all this stuff that we're told to think about and do as, as we call them, tools, right?

You know, so playing the tape forward, right? That's a tool connection. Connection with people that are like-minded, [00:06:00] right? Changing places, people things. You know, getting rid of things that are going to continue us in that addiction. And you know, putting new people, new things, new new ideas in our lives.

And then when we get into recovery, think about recovery. It's not just recovery from an addiction. Recovery could be from anything, right? I mean, people recover from a broken leg, people recover from an illness, people recover from a death. You know, people recover from a relationship. We call it recovery.

And when we look at that recovery, we look at it in terms of how do I help myself move forward? So let's take the idea of a broken leg. You know, when you get to the point of healed and the doctor says it's okay, you have to slowly ramp up your activity right on that leg. You can't just go right back to where you were.

It doesn't work that way. So recovery can take in a lot of other things. So to me, I like that definition that really recovery [00:07:00] encompasses every other thing in our life. So sobriety focuses on the drink and not drinking. Recovery focuses in on every other thing in our life, and I think it's in recovery that we learn the balance that sobriety's trying to give us.

So in talking about all of that, I thought it would be really cool to have a conversation about that. How has our recovery practice changed for each of us? You know, what have we added or subtracted from our recovery practice, and how do we make those definitions to it? And we kind of look at the beginnings of our journeys and talk about the early days and how we maybe viewed the concept of sobriety and recovery and then that middle part, that struggle.

You know, trying to figure out how to maintain sobriety, how to live with this in our lives. Right. And then the last part I thought would be how recovery practice practices become. How's it, how it's become part of 

Guest - Erik: our lives? I, well, I know for me early on, you know, [00:08:00] I, I look at two kind of important dates.

Like September 9th, 2018 was really the last time I intentionally drank alcohol. My friend came down from West Palm Beach. He was like, Hey, take me to the airport. It was an early, like four or 5:00 AM, you know, flight. I said, leave your truck at my place. That's fine. And of course, we drank that night, you know, did some drugs and drove him to the airport.

And I, it was a week after I got my u i, my third one, 10 years. And I just thought to myself, I looked around and just remembered all the cop cars at the airport, and I just thought to myself, what the fuck? What am I doing? What am I doing? What the, you know, what is wrong with me? And. I just, the next day, it was a Monday, and I just, from there on, I went to AA and I was in AA every single day was going, made this time consistent.

I think [00:09:00] all the other times I just did it for the D U I requirements and then I was done. It really was just like, okay, I got, I don't feel like I ever, like this time I'm, I was powerless over alcohol. Like, I literally remember being in the rooms, just like an empty shell of a person and just kind of like, take me, please teach me.

How do I do? I, I, I just turned 40, man, I can't keep doing this. I mean, it's like rinse, wash, repeat. Like, I, I can't, you know, I don't wanna be in jail for the rest of my life. I don't want to die. I don't wanna kill someone else. I don't, you know. And the second date that kind of sticks out is . Literally, it's weird.

It was like literally six months later, like March 9th, 2019, which is now my sober date, but that was a couple days after my court hearing. That's when I found out all my requirements. Like, you know, you have to get a SCR monitor, no license for two years. You have to be in an inpatient treatment center for 30 days.

If you're not, you're going to jail. All the requirements [00:10:00] that I had to do, and March 9th, they were gonna come and pick me up in a van. I, uh, gave my vehicle, I gave my stuff to my neighbor just to like, watch my condo, watch my car, you know, drive my car around, you know, for 30 days. I just, I was like, let me get one good cup of coffee before I go to this thing.

I have no idea what I'm in for. I'm like, scared, I'm nervous, you know, and I went to go get coffee and I ran into her and we had talked about like, well you, you know, go there getting drunk, because when I was calling the treatment centers, I was like, well, I have six months sober. They're like, we can't take you.

You know, it was just all like, nobody would take me. So they're like, well, why you don't need help? So I went back to her place. I got shit, these straw, I got so fucking hammered and it was hard for both of us. Both of us were like, like I was so proud. I mean, she was still drinking, but I was like, Ooh, I'm just showing my chips.

I got a month, I got 30 days, I got six months. You know, she was like so excited for me. So it was really hard decision for her too. And we did it. I got so [00:11:00] wasted. She, the van was running late and I think in my mind I just wanted to get really hammered. So I really kind of was like putting on the sh I wanted to make it stick, cuz what also was sticking in my mind at that time in the early on was the judge saying, if you're not in a treatment center for 30 days, You're gonna go to jail.

So if you're in there for a week, you're gonna do 21 days in jail, you know? So whatever time you don't do, you're gonna have to do in jail. And I'm like, I don't ever wanna go to jail again. Like, this is it for me. I don't wanna do that. So I think early on, AA was just so huge in that six month block from September 9th, 2018 to March 9th, 2019.

After that it was treatment center, still aa. Then I found recovery and it just kind of like snowballed. But early on, I think if anything, just go to the meetings, uh, go. And nowadays there's tons of meetings. Back in maybe 2015 or something when I [00:12:00] didn't want to go to AA meetings I was doing in the rooms.

It was like pre pandemic. Those were like the og to me, those are like the OG Zoom. I mean, those were around years ago. And in the rooms is like a platform for online meetings that like way before even Zoom was a thing. So, you know, early on in the beginning, just throw yourself in and just keep going, keep going.

If you feel uncomfortable, get into that uncomfortableness. Like, just keep going, keep going, keep going. And eventually you'll, you'll get there. You know, it's a journey. 

Host - Eric: I totally relate to that and, and I want to hear from Taylor as well, but I, I just wanted to say, you know, I went through a similar thing, Eric, with D U I and all that.

And the one thing that hit me was I, you know, was mandated by the court to have to go to AA and do all these things. And I didn't wanna do any of that. And I made a decision then I was not going to commit to sobriety. Until I was done with everything else, right. So I would do what the court told me to do, but I wasn't going to buy in until all that was [00:13:00] over because I said the only way this is gonna work is if I make the decision.

Mm-hmm. , that I wanna do it, not the court, not the judge, not somebody in AA me. So I need all this over with so I can have a clear head for the most part. Meaning I didn't have any mandate on me to do something, you know? So we tend to get started kicking and screaming, right? Yep. And I had one of those breathalyzers on my car, and I remember there were two incidents where I had figured out how to drink and then you still be able to drive the car,

I figured that out and I'm like, fuck, that's an alcoholic right there, man. When you can figure out how to get around the breath of life 100%. I figured it out. I, I'd figured out I could go watch a football game. I could have two beers. Wow. Maybe three in the first half. And then by half time I had to. And just drink water and have food and everything else, and sit there for a good two hours, three hours.

I had it all timed out. Okay. One beer that's like an hour and a half another beer. So let me kind of, and [00:14:00] I literally did all that brain work, on how to drink and still drive with a breathalyzer in my car. Wow. . And that's when I like real, all right. I was like, dude, you, you, this has gotta be over cause this is, you are a mess.

Look at what you're doing. All this like brain energy. You're using to figure out how to, how to get around the breathalyzer That 

Host - Taylor: is dedication. . Yeah. Right. . That is hilarious, Eric. And instead of all the guys listening in right now going, okay, I came to this podcast to get sober. They're going, Ooh, wait. How, wait, let me take some notes on this.

what are the, what are the steps you use? Wait, wait. Did he, oh shit. He had to leave something out because this masks not adding up here. He . Oh man, I love everything that's being said right now. The whole time while both of you were talking about this stuff, all I could think of is these are my people. And that's what happens time and time again in the [00:15:00] world of recovery for me is when I listen to other people tell their stories.

Even if I don't have an experience that directly correlates. I've never had a dui period. I have never gone to jail. None of those are part of my stories. So then what qualifies Taylor to be in this conversation right now? It is just in the way that you guys talk about the mental games you play with yourselves and the way in which we go about decision making and the why's behind those decisions.

Let me know that I am surrounded by like-minded people regardless of our stories being variations to each other. And when Eric was talking about September, 2018, And the impact of that day, even though that's not technically the beginning of the latest journey. Whereas a non-alcoholic or a non uh, person who's saying no to [00:16:00] alcohol would look at this and be like, why the fuck did you just not like you still then drink again later?

Like, what's the what, what? Like how to me, to us that's like, oh yeah, no. I mean that totally makes sense. But there's a mental shift, and we've heard this from other podcasts and we've heard this from other people in the world of recovery, there is a shift, almost like a cosmic mental shift that occurs inside of us where we know that was our jumping off point.

And even though we didn't get sober right away, or we still had some growing to do before we made the full commitment, it's still a pivotal point in our journey that really sets the tides for all the activities that later follow it. And I've spoke about it before for me, Even though I dropped to my knees and was at pure desperation, um, in, I think it was like May of 2019, I still didn't get sober, even though that was my pivot point [00:17:00] for another week and a half waiting for my, my dad to fly out and help get me into the rooms, which my journey as well is getting into the rooms of my 12 step program.

And that initial awkwardness is so hard to bypass. Every bone in my body wanted to run away at that first meeting. Every single bone. And this is also a narrative we see and hear so many times of individuals literally showing up to meetings, sitting in their car, in the parking lot, never once getting out for the entire meeting.

And they do it like for months sometimes, and. Some people listening might be like, what the fuck? Why? It is so scary? It is so scary. My ego kept telling me to the point of ad nauseum that I did not have a problem, that this was [00:18:00] manageable, that I could do different, I can handle this. I, I, I, I, I. Right? And it wasn't until I had somebody literally next to me, an accountability buddy to literally be standing right next to me and walking up to that meeting and all the smokers standing outside of it and just joining the conversation with them and leading by example, and not by talking about it.

He was just like, this is, this is what you do in these scenarios. You walk up and you just start saying, hi. And it's like, yeah, but like, what's the trick?

I hear what you're saying, but where's the magic? No, no, no, no. You walk up and you say, hi, tey, you're an extrovert. You know how to do this. Yeah. But like, I don't get it. And that's just capturing one small moment of, of things that change over time is coming to realize these big gigantic weights, these big gigantic [00:19:00] bricks that prevent us from picking up the phone, that prevent us from going to meetings.

It's like all we do is we sit and we listen to all these other people say, go to a meeting. It doesn't have to be aa, go to a fucking meeting. Any meeting, uh, where like-minded people collect and talk about their problem, not drinking alcohol. And you realize very soon and fast that you come there to stop drinking.

You stay for a better life because you're not caring about the drink anymore. You came for the problem, you stayed for the solution. And the solution is just like any life coach will say, you gotta work out. You gotta get your mind right for the. You got to develop practices and add routines that really set you up for success and get those negative narratives outta your mind, right?

Host - Eric: The other thing I would say is when we talk about this first step into sobriety and recovery, [00:20:00] that first step is the hardest step because on top of all that, of sitting in the car and waiting or having somebody drag us into a meeting or trying to get the concept of it all, we're also struggling with the idea that we're about to admit that we have a problem with alcohol.

And that fucking is scary, because that means if I admit that, then that means I gotta do something about it. At least that's the way my brain works, is I gotta, okay, if I admit to you that I got a problem, then I gotta fix it, right? And I don't wanna fucking fix it because I don't wanna say I have a problem.

Maybe I just do this adjustment, or I do that adjustment, or I sit in a bar for three hours and not. So I can drink, you know, I mean, my God, the things we did. Yeah. 

Host - Taylor: But that's also why I would say that recovery happens after you're done exhausting all that stuff. And somebody who's been in recovery long enough will look at the newcomer sometimes, and it'll seem very harsh from the outside perspective, very harsh.

And [00:21:00] they'll say, please don't come to a meeting until you're really fucking done. And that sounds odd. I don't necessarily agree with that. But the point they're making when they say stuff like that is you gotta be desperate. You gotta be at that point where you really have made that decision to be like, oh, I have a problem.

And I can explain and identify where I have a serious issue in many ways, shapes and form. And all that Longtimer is saying is not necessarily, don't come to a meeting that's very dramatic, but you've heard it. Right. What they're really saying is, look, if you're not done, do yourself a favor and go get done.

Guest - Erik: Right, right, right, right. And I think another thing too that I, I don't know, maybe it was my sponsor who told me, but for me, I think I was always more afraid of, and I think a lot of new people, when you go to a meeting and you, what if I see somebody I know, oh my God. And that's like, I think my [00:22:00] sponsor, someone told me, yeah.

They have the same pro, they're there for the same and was like, oh, exactly. Yeah. I didn't even think that way. But I think that too, a lot of new people, like you said, they stay in the car for the whole hour between admitting that you have a problem, which is probably the hardest part, but also like if you run into a colleague or a coworker or somebody you know that you know, but then it's like, yeah, but they're there for the same reason.

So you can't, you know, I mean, just go . 

Host - Taylor: I 

Host - Eric: used to think people were standing across the street that weren't in a part of AA at all, that knew me, that would see me and then go tell 

Host - Taylor: everybody. And the funny thing is, well you, 

Guest - Erik: you're so pop. You're popular in New York. That's what I was gonna say. 

Host - Taylor: Very well

Leave it. Leave it up to us to think we're that fucking important. Exactly. 

Host - Eric: Like, well I 

Host - Taylor: thought I was pretty, what kinda, what kinda thinking is that shit? Well, I'm just worried that there might be paparazzi across the street. And I'm like, what? Paparazzi for who? Who are you? Me? [00:23:00] 

Host - Eric: Yeah. I'm important. Yeah, just ask me in 

Host - Taylor: my head.

Enough about you. I'm super strong. Hey, Eric. Enough about you. Let's talk about me. I'm sick of hearing about you. No, . 

Guest - Erik: There's just so many Erics on this podcast, . 

Host - Taylor: Oh, oh, thank you. Yeah. What, what, what, what about me? My name's Eric as well. Nice to meet you,

Host - Eric: So early. So here we are. We've all kind of talked about that early. Processing. So let's talk a little bit about what were some of those early tools that we learned, and are we still, do we still have those? Do we still keep those in our toolbox or we change them? 

Host - Taylor: Eric? Yes. Thank you. Which one?

The one on that side. The one in the awesome blue. 

Guest - Erik: The one. Yeah. So well Blue shirt or Blue mic. You know, I, Hey we're, we all got blue on, you told 

Host - Taylor: me that this was a purple mic . 

Guest - Erik: I told you it was something else. Ah,[00:24:00] 

Host - Taylor: right down in the ditch. 

Guest - Erik: Yeah, right. Um, so some of the tools, and I actually remember early on in Recovery Elevator when a beautiful young woman named Cassie did an actual chat on recovery tools and there is a PDF of it and it's an amazing toolbox, which you write little notes and put in a jar. And it just so happened that my coworkers gave me that.

So at times when I'm down and out or I'm low, I'll just pick one of those out and it says, you know, anything. You're a rockstar, you're super, you're, you know, just little affirmations. Also, what really helped me in the beginning was, and I still do use this, like playing the tape forward, you know, cuz I still, early on it would be like, I'd watch shows and they'd be at the bar and, you know, I was more of a binge drinking, celebratory drunk.

So it was like, when I'd see that, I'd be like, man, I, I really miss those times, man. And I was like, maybe I just, maybe I, maybe my life is just at a bar, maybe it [00:25:00] just belongs at a bar. You know, you have those freaking stinking thinking. I would just be like, wait, wait, wait. Like where do you see yourself if you go down that path?

And all I would see is like me behind jail or, you know, just, uh, either dead or just, I mean, Right. Just awful instances. You know what I mean? It's just like, no. Yeah. And I feel like at this point, I know if I even have one shot or have one drink, that it would just go the other way. And Eric slash Taylor just talked about on the last podcast, I heard, uh, him ta saying, I think he was at a party and somebody asked him, Hey, you drink?

And you're like, no. And you, you like, kind of be like, well look. And it's like, I, I totally have been there. I feel you. Now it's like, I just don't even have time for people like that anymore. It's like, no, no, I don't. And if you have a problem with it, you have a problem with it. I'm happy with my lemonade.

Okay. And I'm having fun, so, okay. Back off like, yeah. , right? 

Host - Taylor: So yeah. And as things change through our recovery journey, you know, like as we talk about [00:26:00] things that worked in the past, but then maybe kind of lose their steam as you go and continue in sobriety, in early recovery, a lot of people will say, do 90 meetings in 90 days.

Why? Because you're coming out of this mental fog and you need to be on a very strict me regimen, and a lot of people will not follow through with it, but they'll still end up sober. Most people will not follow through with it and then definitely go back out drinking. The whole concept is to at least start developing new habits and new behaviors, and then once you come out of that brain fog, because honestly for those three months, even though you think you feel normal, your brain is still regulating.

And I don't know all the ins and outs of the science, and I guarantee we could have somebody on the show to talk about those things. But I do know that your brain is going through a cleansing process from all the damage and all the imbalances that you created to then kind of regulate themselves again and get back to a state of [00:27:00] homeostasis.

So while all that's going on, having those regimens, Regardless of whether or not you believe in them, go do them. Stick to a plan, get your mind right, then start making decisions, then start backing off. Then start modifying, or really start looking at like, Hey, what has worked for me? What has not worked for me?

And for me, I was really hot and heavy on meetings early on. Now my recovery journey looks very, very different than how it initially started. You know, we had a lot of big world factors play into it, right? Like Zoom and online stuff got really more dominant. And some people made the argument that it's never gonna replace an in-person meeting.

And then you're left with this awkward guilt that you then struggle with because you're like, well, now wait a minute. All the people that have been in recovery forever are telling me that I'm required to go to an in-person meeting. And then you don't go to a meeting at all because you're trapped between appeasing them and not going to an online meeting because you're trying to appease them.

And that's how my brain works. [00:28:00] And you have to like pull yourself back and say, wait, going to an online meeting is still better than no fucking meeting and all you asshole go on to an online meeting. You know? So things change, right? Literally the world has changed and we've adapted. And there's one thing to be said about these people in the world of recovery is we're creative.

We are very unique individuals when it comes to our abilities to solve problems. We just are pointed in the wrong direction. And if we can count those as asset abilities and then point them in a new direction to achieve sobriety and maintain it and find happiness, then we can kind of align ourselves with a better sense of who we actually are, our authentic selves.

And so, while meetings were really important to me in the beginning, I have, you know, we have this podcast now this is a form of therapy for me. I actually go to a therapist. That has been something that has been consistent since before I got sober. When my parents [00:29:00] divorce, when I was like two years old, they sent me to therapy.

And a lot of the skills I talk about are things that I learned playing with a dinosaur in a therapist's office from a very young age. And so, therapy has just been a foundation of who I am. And I'm so grateful that I was given an opportunity to experience those tools early on in my life. And I've carried them back into the world of recovery.

Cuz in my active drinking, guess how much therapy I was going to bar therapy, you know, that's it. That's, that's the only therapy I went to was talking and complaining to my bartender and that was it. You know, so there are things that do look different today for me on how I originally started out and then how things have adapted and.

Host - Eric: As I'm writing down what you all are saying, I put down going to a meeting, which is what Taylor was talking about, didn't, right underneath that I wrote connection. And in a lot of ways it's the same thing, but it can be done in different ways. I like that concept of [00:30:00] connection because I think it does get us out of our heads.

Um, it does make us realize we are not the center of attention and we are not the only person out there that's having these problems, and we are not, not fixable. Right. You know, a lot of times I, at least for me, uh, I used to think, well, I, I just think differently than everybody else, and that's not fixable, so I'm not even gonna bother anyone with this.

I'll just muddle through connection allowed me to realize that was not true and I needed to get out of that, that mindset. The, the other thing I wrote down for me that was really helpful early on was getting out in nature and kind of connecting to, to the earth, to the, to the environment. Realizing that we're a part of a bigger story.

And that got me out of my head thinking I was the center of this big story and I'm the superstar. The realization was that I'm just a part of this big whole beautiful moment that's called life and I just need to show up and be a part of it. And that allowed me to see that those are some of [00:31:00] my tools early on that kind of came into play.

Oh, oh. And the other one, and Eric, you brought this up before. Um, but playing the tape forward was always, and still to this day is a big one. It's not about one drink. It never is about one drink. We started off and tell ourselves it's about one drink because that's that little voice in our head that's going, come on dude.

You're just gonna have one drink. That's it. Take the edge off. You'll be good. But we all know one drink really means a thousand oblivion, you know, until everybody else finally goes home. And we're the ones sitting there at 4:00 AM as the sun's come up going, oh shit. I did it again. Did I ? Oops, I did it.

Okay. You did it again. We do have a little Britney Spears . 

Guest - Erik: And I think to your point too, Eric, I think that, you know, I think we go in in stages or phases, I mean mm-hmm. , I wanna say, you know, for, for five years, from like 2013 to 2018, I was at that point where I was like, why can't I do this? Why can't I [00:32:00] just be a normal drinker?

Why can't everybody does it? It's all, you know, people get drunk every now and then, but some people can have their two drinks and. I really fought to try and do it and you know, there were times where I could go out and go out to dinner and have one drink and I'd be fine. I wouldn't want it. But then there were those other times, usually on a three or four day weekend when those are just my, where my craving hardcore times where I couldn't stop.

And that's how I got that third deal. I mean, I literally was drinking Gatorade and vodka early in the morning. I remember talking to my mom when I was like, probably half in the sheets and I'm doing laundry. And you know, that even kind of ties into like. When I got home from jail, um, I had someone else's laundry scattered all over my condo and I was like, oh my God.

I felt horrible. Like I still to this day don't know whose laundry. I like folded it up and brought it back. My laundry was still in the dryer, but I'm like, there was a kid, it was like there was a kid shirt in it. I'm like, oh, how embarrassing. [00:33:00] I'm like, how could you, I couldn't imagine what somebody was doing doing laundry.

They go and their laundry's gone , and I mean, I was jail . I was in jail all night. So, man. Yeah, I just feel like too, like to your point, I think I, I think there's different stages of, I mean, let's be real. I was drinking for probably 20, 20 years of my life. Half my life was in booze, so I can't expect my brain to just be like, okay, you're gonna stop.

We're not wired that way. Uh, I'm sorry, I don't, I mean, maybe somebody else's. I'm not . Uh, if anybody listening, uh, can do that. Please, please tell me what the secret is. , how do I lose weight really fast? 

Host - Taylor: No, I dunno. Yeah, no, definitely how things morph and change in our drinking days. It's interesting to go back in hindsight and look and see the writing on the wall, but when we're in it, and when we were in those moments, life wasn't so different and crazy to us.

We didn't see [00:34:00] the, we didn't see what was actually going on. It was very normal behavior and sometimes it even wasn't necessarily bad behavior. We just, we paint it with a different lens when we look at it from a recovering perspective and go, wait, wow, no, that was really kind of messed up. Why did I go down that road?

But then when we get sober and we're trying to figure out our identity, because I am identity less when I first got sober. Who is Taylor, right? How does he define himself? Now, am I an alcoholic? Do I have to use that phrase? These are the big things for me. I'm gonna be wearing a wife beater. That's the guy that gets sober is the guy that wears the wife beater, beats his kids and drinks out of a paper bag.

One. I'm a dick for even thinking that way because yes, he is on my team as well. He is, and he deserves just as much recovery as I do, and I am no fucking better than him. But my ego tells me I am. I have terminal [00:35:00] uniqueness. I think my story is different, better, stronger. I have a hero's journey to achieve.

That's my life, right? From a very early on, I was the kid that had fantasies about a catastrophic event occurring, right where I was sitting or standing, and I was the hero that got everybody out of the scenario. That was me. I was, I was that kid. I had those fantasies on a regular basis, not because I wanted bad things to happen.

No, no, no, no, no, no. I wanted to be a hero and I viewed myself in a hero's journey. So no matter what I did in my life, there was this narrative being built that I'm some form of a hero to others, even though I wasn't doing anything heroic at all whatsoever. And then that translated into my drinking, which then translated from preventing me to get sober because I had that narrative of, I'm unique, I can do this.

I'm an overcomer. I can have these feats and fight through [00:36:00] them, yada, yada, yada. And it wasn't until I actually admitted defeat and just took responsibility and quit lying to myself and be honest, that things started to shift in a more. Natural and easy way, even though it was super hard to start. And once we start making that shift, we get into the world of recovery and then all of a sudden all those things start hitting us again the exact same way that they were hitting us before we quit drinking.

And you go through these moments where sobriety's fantastic sex is amazing. And then you go through other times where you're like, I don't even know what rhythm is. Um, I can't even fucking find harmony in anything I do. Making a bagels hard, like all of a sudden life just gets fucking difficult for no damn reason.

And we have to then reinvent ourselves time and time again in the world of recovery. And you're like, does this ever stop? And the answer is no. Accept it. Learn to [00:37:00] serve. Ride the wave, ebb and flow. Your recovery will look different as you stay sober longer. And I think that's a whole topic that I think we can even go on a completely sidebar with, and I'm sure we'll have an episode about it.

Is recovery burnout, right? Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Oh 

Host - Eric: yeah. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Going to the same meeting over and over and over again, and listening to Joe's Fucking Same five stories. Damn it. Right? Oh, I know. Yep.

Host - Eric: Both of you kind of segued naturally into the next part of this. The next part of this is moving forward in our recovery, so what does that start to look like as we move, say, a year into our journey? I know for me, what really started to happen was this idea that recovery included. Everything in my life.

Not just staying away from drinking, but also how I [00:38:00] was managing different parts of my life and how I was looking at those different parts. There was trauma in my life, emotional, but trauma that I had carried into my, my adult life and was still operating from that mechanism of how do I make people happy so they include me.

How do I keep people from being angry at me? How do I make sure that I'm ahead of them in thinking so I don't get them mad, so therefore I am accepted and I am part of this and everybody's happy. And if everybody's happy, then Eric can be happy. But it, cuz if everybody's sad, then Eric isn't gonna be sad.

Eric's then gonna run around like a fucking mad man to figure out how to make everybody happy again. And that was the, the cycle. And I started looking at that cycle going, this is just like drinking. and I need to figure this out. Getting sober from alcohol allowed me to, for the first time to really look at that [00:39:00] from the perspective of strength and say, I don't have to be that way.

Mm-hmm. , I don't need to be that way. I can work on being better. I can work on having a voice and, and getting back to that place where I am visible. I'm not invisible. I am visible. And that was more this my head than what people were thinking. But still I had to change my thinking about myself. And for me, that's the middle part of, of rec.

And not that we're ever at the end, but that's where recovery really picked up for me was the idea that I had to start looking at and focusing on every other aspect of my life and how could I make that better. 

Guest - Erik: Well, first of all, I love what the, uh, other Eric said about identity less . I just love, I love that term when you said that, it really just brought me back to that day when I got in that AA room and I just felt like so, I was just ready to be taught ga, how do I do this?

Yeah. You were beautifully defeated. Yeah. I mean, identity [00:40:00] less. I, I, that was like a perfect, like when you said that, I was like, I, I love that termin. I love that term. I've never heard that. I think for me, moving forward, you know, even back in 2021, I remember when I met Taylor, it was like, I think I was still talking and having my pity parties of like, I wanna lose weight at one of, I kept talking about it but not doing anything.

And I think finally it kind of like the light bulb went off like, this is not gonna be an easy fix. You can't just do like those random apple cider goalie gummies and magically shed the weight off. Unfortunately, like all of those ads I see , it doesn't work that way. And actually those things made me angry, you know?

And finally I just feel like I'm in such a better place in December when I started. And for me, it's just going to the gym. That's really the struggle cuz my head starts spinning. I'm like, well what if I'm doing the exercise wrong? Or what are people gonna say? Oh, they're gonna, I can't go. Oh, there's gonna be a bunch of like bulky guys there.

I'm not bulky. I don't wanna get bulky, I just wanna get [00:41:00] healthy. And like thi, you know, and you know what? I got outta my head and I just started going and I just started walking. And then I was like, okay, I'm done with this A month after. I wanted to try and incorporate some, they have like a circuit which kind of hits every body part.

So I started doing that and then I just like, that was like December, January, and then February, I just saw like a couple weeks ago a video on some guy who just was incorporating like an hour of walking into his gym routine every day. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. I have time. I can walk for an hour.

Like, you know, and I work from home. I'm sitting all freaking day. I'm very steady denture, you know, I don't have a job where I'm like, oh no. And just to think of even attempting to do what I've been doing these past couple weeks where I'm like getting up every, every day. Now I'm going, cuz I really wanna do that month challenge of like walking every day.

I would've never been able to do this back. Back in the beginning. In the [00:42:00] beginning it was more about, I always say like the first year was like, how do I just stop drinking? Like, how do I just, how you know. Then the second year I felt like I kind of dipped my toes into like, so society again, you know, even though it was covid, like, how do I navigate this world?

How do I, how do I like meet people and how do I, you know, sober? You know? And then the third year, I feel like was deepening the connections. Like, I, I, you know, the band was lifted. I wanted to meet people that I've been zooming with for so long. I was, I wanted to give them a hug and actually like, have one-on-one conversations with 'em without, you know, 20 or 30 other people.

And, you know, that strengthens any kind of relationship. You know, your friendships deepen when you're able to go and just have connections with people and not over booze or. You know, if like I go to bars sometimes for drag shows, it's like I, I don't have a problem doing that, you know? I mean, shit, when I was with [00:43:00] Taylor, we were at Dave and Buster's and some guy was like pushing him to get a drink and he, Taylor was like, no dude.

Like, no dude, no. You know, it was like almost to the point where it was like he was drunk, you know? I was like, I don't know if he didn't hear Taylor if he wasn't like his brain was so messed up cuz he was j but we're able to go to places with alcohol and be fine. My first year, I don't think I could have done that.

Uh, I remember the first time I went out with a friend that I hadn't seen in a while and I kept texting my sponsor. I took a photo of the ice tea and then. Maybe about an hour or two into seeing her. She's like, Hey, her friend arrived and she's like, Hey, my friend can get some coke. And I'm like, okay, that's done.

I'm well. It was great seeing you. I had a great night, . You do whatever you wanna do. Uh, that's my cue to leave. And I think that ties into, like you were saying, some of the tools, well, some of the tools in early on, in, in the beginning is have a plan of attack, have an exit plan for any place. You feel like you're going to have somebody, like I said, I was texting [00:44:00] my sponsor, text your accountability partner.

Text your sponsor, text somebody who you feel comfortable with and say, Hey, I'm at this party. I'm really feeling uncomfortable. What do you think? Should I leave? I, I, I can't leave. Okay. Could you take an Uber? Could you take a Lyft hunk? You know, I don't know. Or, let me just stay on the phone with you until the, your hus, your partner's ready to leave or whatever.

I think that all ties into it. And, uh, yeah. I mean it's just, it's evolving every year. I, every day, but every year, 

Host - Taylor: you know. Right. I really. What you had to say about how that first year looked for you. Right. Because I think a big thing that we come into recovery thinking is that all of a sudden things are going to start falling into place.

And in all actuality, the sad truth is, and what people don't want to hear at all whatsoever, is that first year is for just focusing on staying sober at any length. [00:45:00] Just fucking don't drink. And Right. Some people stay on that step for the entire year, and that is the very beginnings of things. And it's like, why does it take so long in the cosmic world that exists around us?

One year is not that long, especially even for our lifetime. Like let's argue that what average people live to, uh, 80 years old, I think, and that's statistics. Even old, that's one. Of our entire life. One 80th is not much to give up to just focus on not drinking. Right? And I was told this very early on in my recovery, and it's a mental picture that I like to continue forward with of when I stop drinking, I am stopping the bleeding.

I am star. I'm stopping that artery from bleeding out in 10 seconds. That's what I'm doing. All these other microcuts that I have from the world around me, I [00:46:00] can deal with those later. I can deal with all of that drama later. I can deal with developing meaningful relationships. Later I can deal with quitting smoking cigarettes.

Like, yes. Should you work on those things? Yes. But I cannot tell you how many times I've watched other people's recoveries fail and it hurts my heart because they take on too much too early and they say, I'm gonna get sober. And then they fuck it all up by saying, and, and I'm going to work out seven days a week and I'm going to quit smoking and I'm gonna fix my eating problem and I'm gonna do this.

Are all those great things to do? 100% and sweet honey child, please do them after year one. In my opinion, and that's just a rule of thumb, right? Everything is subjective here. It's not hard, fast rules, but there is something to be said about that first year and what you said about it just [00:47:00] really hit home for me because I got sober and I swear all I wanted to do in that first year is my sponsor told me.

Don't go looking for a relationship, you just got out of a very serious one. And all I fucking wanted to do was get laid. All right? That's all I wanted to do because there's a lot of good looking individuals in the world of recovery and they're vulnerable, and that's an opportunity for an asshole like me.

13 Stepper. Yeah, 13. 

Guest - Erik: I'm sorry. Stepper. Sorry, excuse me. I just had a cough. . 

Host - Taylor: Yeah, it's okay cuz in tight 13th stepping is not a step, but it is a step and it's a very significant one. Technically speaking, my wife and I are 13 stepper, you know, cuz she's in recovery and I'm in recovery. So technically we're thir 13 stepping each other.

But one thing, while you guys were talking, you saw me for the video that's being shot for this conversation. You saw me perusing around my office and I was probably being a little distracting, but I was looking up something that I have not looked at [00:48:00] in a very long time. So I'm gonna share this with both of you guys and let me know when you can see it.

I see it. Ooh, I see it. Yeah. Very early on this diagram was painted for me, and I've painted it for multiple people as well. And by painting, it's a drawing. It's a pathway of what the brain does when we decide we wanna drink. And why this is so significant to me was because I've never had things explained to me this way.

And this hit so hard for me. There's two columns. Column one is the body, and column two is the mind and the body is synonymous with powerlessness and the mind is synonymous with unmanageability. And these are the two jumping off points that we get to, and I needed to accept before I could continue on [00:49:00] exploring this world of.

And the way it works is you start with the body. You start with the physiological things that do incur inside of us when we think about getting a drink or when we do drink, right? So what happens? Well, directly underneath body and powerlessness is your first drink. And that first drink leads into something that a lot of people in the world of recovery call an allergy.

It's the addiction p addiction part of the mind where you, in a sense, break out in this inability to quit drinking. You continue down more and more and you eventually evolve into the craving where it's an obsession and that leads into more and more and more. And it does not stop. You can't just go at one drink, and that's what this column looks like going from top to bottom is the first drink.[00:50:00] 

Then the the allergic reaction to it craving, you need more, then you binge it and you go on a spree. Now, this isn't one night that we're describing. It could be all of this is captured in one evening, or it could be over the course of years. It does not matter, but this is what is occurring, captured, finite or exponentially, and eventually at the bottom of this column lies the consequence.

And the consequence doesn't need to be dramatic. And that's why you hear in the world of recovery, so many people describe their consequences differently. They'll sit there and say, well, my consequence wasn't dramatic. My kid caught me in the closet drinking and I cried and I gave up and that was my consequence.

While others say I actually got. 15 DUIs and you know, I was homeless and I beat my wife. And [00:51:00] though that's their consequence. Is it different? Are we ones to judge? That's not our choice. And that's the beauty of this diagram is because anybody can look at it and find their story. Now looking at column number two, which is mine synonymous with unmanageability, that is actually where the ending of the body transfers to the brain.

After the consequence, we move to the mine and we swear off of it, if anybody's seen the movie Euro Tripp before, every time he wakes up from a drunk night, the first thing out of his mouth is I'm never drinking again. And how relatable is that? We all say it the morning after and we can all think of a scenario where we've done exactly that no more, and that is the result of the consequence.

And that could be a weak. It could be a day, it could be 20 minutes, it could be a month, it could be five years of recovery, 15 years of recovery. [00:52:00] But eventually something starts to shift, and this is the next part of the second column, restless, irritable, and discontent. You start to experience those three things in life, and I think Eric was talking about this.

With things start to get stale in our recovery, things start to get bland. We start looking for reasons to go back out, and in all actuality, we can go back and identify these three words that are probably occurring in some way, shape, or form in our lives, and this is our first big tool to combat those stale moments in recovery.

But if we're not aware and we don't have this diagram and we aren't painted this picture, then we don't know that there's these three beautiful words that describe our illness, that describe our allergy in very meaningful [00:53:00] ways of restlessness, irritability, and discontentedness. And then there's a lurking notion, which is the next part.

This. Hmm. Oh man. Like I could just smell that alcohol. And for some reason it just sm those hops just smell a little bit more potent today. Ah, that's nothing. Don't worry about it. That's okay. I'm good, I'm good. No issues, no problems here. But there's that lurking notion, right? And do you stop it then, or do you let that feeling rye and all of a sudden you find yourself standing out the side, the same building where you smelled the hops yesterday, this the next day, and then the next day, all of a sudden you're changing your entire routine to walk past that building every single morning.

And a plan develops. Whether conscious or subconscious, and then you start justifying, you give yourself that hero's journey story again. Well, I deserve this, or almost this victim's story, whatever you want to call it. They're almost synonymous with each other. And then there's a rationalization that occurs.

And before you know it, you're obsessing. And by the time you're there, it's too late. [00:54:00] All you need now is an opportunity. And guess where that opportunity leads back to the top of column one, your first drink. And this is the cycle. This is the painting of the picture of addiction through and through, and it never ever stops until we paint this picture and shed that limelight directly on it.

And call it out for what? It's,

Host - Eric: it's good to watch that cycle and, and probably most of us can listen to that and relate and in some cases probably this was really good for some of our listeners because they're going through this and maybe they're having these aha moments right now. Like, oh wait, I remember feeling that way. Oh yeah, I remember that obsession.

I remem, right. So I think this is good stuff, man. You know, and honestly, it leads to one thing I wanted to bring up cuz Eric had talked about some things too, but the idea of neuroplasticity, I just wanted to read you the [00:55:00] definition of it. Neuroplasticity, the capacity of the brain to develop and change throughout life.

So why do I bring that up? When we are in recovery, and this is kind of where this whole conversation is heading, is the idea of that what we are doing is we are working to change our brain. We are working to change the way that we think, you know, and the first thing that is when we. Whatever happened in our life, the first idea is to drink.

So we are trying to change that in early recovery. We are. That is exactly what we're trying to do. You know, again, uh, AA talks about people, places, and things and, and honestly, most of the recovery world does talk about that to some degree. Maybe not in the same context, but they do talk about it. And the idea that, that we have to change things.

We can't keep doing the same thing and think that something different's gonna happen cuz it's not, you know, and, and by changing things, we then give our brain a chance to rediscover connections [00:56:00] to other things. Eric brought up the gym. We are able to bring online that idea that, oh, hey, you know, my body needs to work out.

Or it could be, I just need, and you know, Eric, I think you talked about this early on in this conversation, but it makes me feel better. It gets those endorphins going and it gives me that rush that I really. That I kind of got from alcohol before, but now I'm finding another way to get it right. So there's that, that, that brain adjusting and saying, oh, I don't have to go to alcohol to feel this.

I can go to the gym at four in the morning. 

Host - Taylor: And I think the beauty of that is actually something that I didn't even realize was on this diagram that I have in front of us right now. I scrolled down a little bit at the end and I realized that before that first drink hits, there is this beautiful thing and this is the change.

This is the neuroplasticity that you're talking about. This beautiful word becomes available to us again. When [00:57:00] we spent so many years feeling like this word was never achievable, we're given a choice, right? We're given a choice and we feel like we can actually choose yes now. Yes. Because before I felt like I couldn't choose no to alcohol.

It was always a box I could check, but for some reason, every time I clicked it, it wouldn't fucking select it. There was like an error in the programming, you know, like I tried multiple times to click choice. I want a choice, give me a choice. And every time I clicked, it didn't fucking take and I had to reboot the computer and relapsed a couple more times and , and now we're 

Host - Eric: given one.

It's not that we're just given one, it's that we are suddenly realizing that we have the power to make a choice. At least for me, in my little world, I felt like I was the victim and when I so started to realize I had power and I had the ability to choose, and then I could choose, you know, and Eric kind of like [00:58:00] you, I was in this position with the whole idea, and I think Taylor talks about this too.

My bottom was the idea that I came to the realization with my fifth d u i, that I can't do this again. I'm going to go to jail, I'm going to lose my li I I'm gonna lose my, my job. I'm gonna lose everything that I've worked for is gonna go right out the window. If I keep being an asshole about this and not realize I have a problem and, and fix it, you know, whatever fix it meant at that point, you know, which basically meant I needed to stop drinking.

So I think that when we suddenly realize we have a choice, and I do think in that magic moment of realization that these magic moments, , I need to change this. That, that, that is the first moment that we get where we realize we have a choice, right? Yeah. And, and that we can make the choice. We don't need somebody else to make it.

We can make the choice. I say all the time, the best decision I've ever made in [00:59:00] my life is a decision to stop drinking. Yeah. And that was the strongest choice, the strongest moment in my life as, as a man, uh, and as a human being. To finally make the choice to do the right thing for 

Guest - Erik: me. Right. I'm curious, Taylor, where, where was that from?

That sheet of paper? W was that from early on that you had that, or a class 

Host - Taylor: that you took or? No, so it's actually a document that has been passed down from person to person. In my 12 step program. It's been from one sponsor to a next. They've just built on it and it's like a book study on like all of the 12 steps and their way of conceptualizing it.

And that was one person's way of conceptualizing the first step. Of powerless over alcohol in my life has become unmanageable. And a lot of people struggle with claiming powerlessness and unmanageability because they think that they're a successful business owner. [01:00:00] That's what manageability looks like, even though they can't fucking stop drinking, that's unmanageability, right?

So it paints the picture of. Showing the brain, showing the person, no, this is unmanageability. This is powerlessness. 

Guest - Erik: Okay. Because it brought me back to another good thing that I don't think we've talked about, but I know it was a huge tool for a lot of people and I did early on, was journaling. Because I still have my journal from when I was in treatment center, cuz I mean, I was there 30 days.

So we would journal every day. And then I love this app called Penzu when I'm on the go because it's on my phone. And early on I would just have thoughts and run to my car and just kind of talk into it and be like, okay, so today I'm feeling anxious, nervous, and you know, whatever, I, I lost my job. Or you know, the company after I got out of treatment, the company shut down and just all these things.

And then a year later it's kind of like Facebook and it sends me like the memories. So like Thursday when I hit my four year, it had like how I was feeling. Like I think from my third or second year. It's just, it's kind of cool [01:01:00] because it brings me back to those times when I'm like, wow. Yeah, I think I, yeah, I have, I've come really far.

I remember when I was kind of like down and out, you know what I mean? Like having a pity. So I was curious to where you got that, that sheet for, cuz it looked like it was something that. You got? Yeah. 

Host - Eric: What's the name of that app again? Eric Penzu. Uh, 

Guest - Erik: Penzu. P E N Z u. Ooh, okay. And I just, yeah, I like it cuz it's just, uh, if when I'm on the go or when I just have thoughts and I'm not near a pen and paper or computer, I'm just ta You can talk into it.

Yeah, you can do. And then it gives you 

Host - Eric: reminders. So those at home, I hope you're listening and you have a pen and paper and you're writing down these different tools and different app and we'll, we'll definitely mention 'em in the show notes as well. 

Host - Taylor: A hundred percent. And those at home, just to play the devil's advocate, I hope you're not listening.

nice. . And more importantly, 

Guest - Erik: I hope you're watching, I hope you're watching us . 

Host - Taylor: Eric, did you just say that you are four years 

Guest - Erik: sober? Yes. Thursday, uh, March 9th, [01:02:00] 2019. So March 9th, 2023. Just hitting my for you. Nice. 

Host - Taylor: Woohoo. Congrats. Congrats. 

Host - Eric: Another four year. We we're kind of this four year, um, podcast. We keep having people on it at Reddit.

Four years. Yeah. 

Host - Taylor: How's that happen? I, I don't know. A fantastic 

Guest - Erik: four. Hi. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah. My 

Guest - Erik: arms do stretch a little bit more now. 

Host - Taylor: Do you feel a little bit more elastic? Feel a little 

Guest - Erik: more elastic. Yeah. . 

Host - Taylor: Yeah. That's good. As long as you don't feel see-through Invisible. Oh my God.

Host - Eric: All right. So to kind of recap a little bit, we talked about the beginning stages of sobriety and some of the tools, and we'll mention the tools again at the end that all of us use to try to get through those early days. We then started to talk about that section where we move into year two and beyond, [01:03:00] and we start to figure out how to look at the rest of our life and bring things in that life that maybe need some focus and work from us, because we neglected it, for lack of a better word, during our days of addiction.

So the last part is how do we live comfortably in our recovery practice? So Eric just turned four years. I, I turned four years, about a month ago. Taylor slash Eric will be turning four years, very soon. Eric Taylor, we're up here in June, I believe. . 

Host - Taylor: So, so how do we. Oh my God. Oh my God. I just said last episode.

I was trying to escape the aliens. Okay. Not be them. That means that I'm a normal drinker. Now don't validate me. Pieces, pieces, pieces, . 

Host - Eric: So how has each of your recovery practices at this point become more, less of a, I've gotta focus on this and really be aware of it. And more too is part of just what I do every 

Host - Taylor: day.

The promises for me, [01:04:00] it's the promises that I was guaranteed in my recovery program. Uh, it could not have become more true. So far I believe that I've done a decent job. I'm not preachy about my program cuz I don't want necessarily someone to come over to my program because I told them to. My whole thing though is I just go with what has worked for me and what I've been led by examples and I've looked at people and looked up to people in the world of.

And they've told me about these things and holy shit, have they come true for me. It's just been something that has become a part of my recovery journey. So the promises for me of my program are really what I live every single day and is, and I'm quoting here. If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, which for me means the entirety of my recovery and working my [01:05:00] program through and through and being consistent and and being persistent, we will be amazed before we are halfway through.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past or wish to shut the door on it. That's a big deal and that's a big promise. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interests in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle [01:06:00] situations which used to baffle us.

That is, all of those things to me are just so impactful. And the last statement of it is, I'm paraphrasing a little bit because I make this modification for myself and myself alone, but we will suddenly realize that. The universe or our higher power is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Now here's the trick. Do I live 100% in that all the time? Fuck no. Like I said a couple episodes ago, I'm not a monk. I still have problems. I am still a whip, a work in progress. I still have a lot of work to do and I'm not in a constant state of bliss. But the promises say I live in them and I realize when they're living through me, and I can appreciate those moments when they are happening, just like I can know when they're not happening and I become restless, irritable, and discontent, [01:07:00] and I need to go back and focus.

Focus on the basics. So to answer your question, it's the promises for me. I live in that head space and I'll be the first person to raise my hand and say, that is how I live my life. I do not experience and have not experienced in a very long time a burning desire to pick up alcohol. I've had fleeting thoughts, but I just, alcohol could be placed right in front of me right now, and I wouldn't bat an eye.

I don't view it as dangerous to me anymore. I don't want it. I have no desire to drink it. It's literally like, think of the most disgusting food you could imagine being placed right in front of you, and you're just like, no, that I'm not even worried about me possibly eating that right now. Like, it's disgusting.

It's always been disgusting. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna touch it. I'm not gonna do anything with it. That's more or less how I feel about alcohol these days, except I don't like, I'm not repulsed by it, but I just, I have no desire to drink [01:08:00] it. It's, it's this thing that exists and it is so bizarre.

But the only way I get to continue to feel that way is by continuing to do the things that have gotten me to this point of b. That's awesome. 

Host - Eric: I love that. The promises. And I could feel each and every one of them, and I have not. I mean, I've, I have gone to aa, I do have a sponsor. I have not gone through all the steps as of yet, got halfway through them.

However, all those promises I relate to. And what came out of all that for me was that my life overall is better. And there's a piece to that. And in that piece, the things I do for my recovery, the things I do for my sobriety are not overwhelming anymore. They're, they're just part of who I am. You know, when I plan a trip, I think about, well, what are the things I wanna do?

Not that, oh, I'm not gonna be going to bars, so I guess I need to find something to do. I already don't even think about the bars. I think about, [01:09:00] I'm gonna go on a trip. What do I wanna do on this trip? What's there to see? What's there to do? What kind of hiking can I do? What kind of outdoor things can I do?

So I love that those are things that we can certainly look towards to help drive us into sobriety and recovery. So I love that. Thank you Taylor for that. Thank you. Eric, what about you? What was 

Guest - Erik: the question again? I forgot , 

Host - Taylor: I was 

Guest - Erik: just so ented with the promise, but I forgot the overall 

Host - Taylor: the No, 

no, 

Host - Eric: it's how does, how does your practice, how is it just part of your life now?

Host - Taylor: I think 

Guest - Erik: it just becomes routine. You know, this year's gonna be a big year. I'm getting my interlock ignition device out like you had just talked about earlier in July. I've had that in for two years. And to kind of tailor slash Eric's point, he had mentioned, you know, your higher power. On my four year I went to the dentist and I had this kind of health scare a few months back called osteomyelitis in my jaw.

And I had six weeks of IV antibiotics, [01:10:00] had no idea how to do any of this stuff. You know, just things like those. I'm like, if I was drinking I would've never got through it or I would've drank on the weekends to help myself get through it. You know, sitting here for a freaking half hour, hour with uh, I literally had a pole and IV belt, like the whole thing.

I'm like, well back. So on my four year I go and the dentist showed me this really cool like scan of my jaw back in like November and it was like almost the size of a ch piece of the cheezit and it was like missing my bone was gone cuz of the osteo, it's like a bone infection. And then he showed me the one they took on my four year and it was completely all healed, my jaw.

He's like, you look good. Get outta here. I don't ever wanna see you again. You know, joking, but Wow. Right. You know? But it was a really scary time. I mean, I remember going to my infectious disease doctor and being like, am I gonna die? And I think if I was still drinking I would have just numbed out.

Probably gone to the office maybe drunk or just kind of kept pushing it off. [01:11:00] Also, you know, and I'm kind of going off topic, but for me, I've noticed just financially I'm more stable. I'm not living paycheck to paycheck. Like before it was like, okay, I gotta have enough to go out for the weekend. Okay. But if, usually if I get drunk, I may wanna like splurge on some party favors, you know, things like that.

It's like I don't have to worry about that. I, I'm comfortable, you know, I'm not like where I wanna be at. But those are goals that we all wanna have. Goals. Right. I think too with, over the years, I know we've talked about it. In my first year I was on Wellbutrin, Celexa, Adderall, and I got off that I tried something called tms, which was.

Transcranial magnetic stimulation. Tried that therapy for, I got 45 sessions. Didn't really feel too much, so kind of went back to the meds. I wanna say maybe 20 21, 20 22, and then towards the end of 2022. Is when I stopped that and started going to the gym again. Maybe [01:12:00] this was my higher power. They built one right across the street.

So I literally walk there now every morning at three or four in the morning, . So, you know, I think all of those things though are kind of ways of keeping me in my practice. I go to the morning chat in the morning when I can. Also knowing my own like personal boundaries, like I love the disordered me eating meeting, but it's at eight 30 and I usually have been going to bed at eight or nine.

And it's just like, to me right now, yes, I'm still in recovery. Yes, I still practice, but really my main focus and the, the focus of my coaching was staying on track with the gym. I really want to get healthy, I wanna slim down. I want to get in a healthy state of mind and state of 

Host - Taylor: body. Yeah. 

Host - Eric: Wow. One thing that you said that I thought was really great, I, in terms of.

How I think recovery shows up for us as we go down the road allows you [01:13:00] to focus in on these other things and be committed to them. Right. Right. Whereas, like you even said, you know, that whole scare with the infection and all of that, that, oh, I might have showed up drunk. I might have put it off, I might have kicked the can down the road, so to speak.

Right, right. Um, we all did. And, and we didn't think about our health. We could care less. We were just like, fuck it, I'll just go drink cuz I can't deal with this shit. This is too much. Right? And we're not doing that anymore. And so the idea that you could take on the gym and, and get up at four in the morning and show up for yourself to do those things is huge.

That's not something that you would've accomplished in your addiction, right? 

Guest - Erik: These are the things like, I really wanna focus. I feel like for two years, like 2021 and most of 2022, I, I was just like, I wanna lose weight. I wanna lose weight. And to Taylor's point, like my first year was stopping drinking. I stopped smoking, which I personally thought was a hell of a lot harder than the alcohol.

Stopping smoking is no joke. Equally as hard. So [01:14:00] agree with Taylor that first year. Just do the alcohol. Okay. To worry about the cigarettes like second, third year. You know, I hate saying that, but it's true. It's like, yeah, we're not 

Host - Taylor: saying that those aren't problems. We're just saying that like, look, if you wanna be successful here, focus on this.

Right. One thing at a time. Worry about the other stuff after. Exactly. Right. Yeah. Right. Well, this has been amazing, Eric. Thanks for the topic. And Eric, thanks for coming on the show. And Eric, thanks for looking and having great hair. Oh, you're welcome Eric. Thanks, Eric. You're welcome. Okay, cool. Awesome. It's been such a joy.

I love these conversations. I love this accountability. We just, we love you so much. I can't wait for you to come back out to Colorado and visit me at some point. And Right. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, 

Host - Eric: Eric, thank you very much. I mean, it was amazing. It was amazing discussion. I thought this was a great podcast meeting and I loved it.

So thank you. 

Guest - Erik: Right. No, thank you so much. Sober and shameless, Taylor, Eric, I love you guys. 

Host - Eric: Hey, thank you all for listening to this show. We really 

Host - Taylor: [01:15:00] appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we would not be here without you. 

Host - Eric: New episodes, air every Friday morning. This show is available wherever you podcast.

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Woo, and finally shed that shame. 

Host - Eric: Don't forget to take care of yourself today. We love you and you are worth it. 

Host - Taylor: Coming in regular. Coming in hot.[01:17:00] [01:18:00]