Episode 15 - First Fucking Time (FFT's)

Episode 15 - First Fucking Time (FFT's)

We are joined by our favorite featured host, Cassie, to discuss FFT's, what they are, and what it was like experiencing things for the first time sober.
Show notes from the hosts:
In this episode Taylor, Eric and Cassie explore what it was like to experience something for the first time while sober, how it compared to doing that thing while drinking, and maybe what it was like trying something completely new without the association of drinking at all.
Host's and Show Social Media
sobershameless@gmail.com
IG: @sobernshameless
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buymeacoffee.com
klingercrafted
ericandrewcoaching12@gmail.com
IG: @e_acoach
Tiktok  @ericandrewcoaching
FB: Eric Andrew Coaching
Eric's website:ericandrewcoaching.com

Transcript

S&S EP 15 - 4_20_23, 4.27 PM

Host - Taylor: [00:00:00] Sober and Shameless, episode 15.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the show. I'm Taylor Klinger. And I'm Eric. Andrew. And this is Sober and Shameless shedding the Shame, the podcast that flips the script on what it means to live a sober life. 

Host - Eric: In each episode of Sober and Shameless, the host, along with the occasional guests, will pick a topic to shed their shame about, explore ideas on how to grow through those challenges and provide organic, lighthearted, honest, and unprofessional commentary about their experiences with addiction, strength through recovery and life and sob.

In my 

Host - Taylor: head. In my head, zombie mb zombie. Zombie.[00:01:00] 

We're so good at singing. Amazing, amazing, 

Host - Eric: amazing. We definitely should just stick to podcasting and not trying to go out on the road as a rock 

Host - Taylor: band. I kind of feel like we're going double platinum there. I don't know. 

Guest Host - Cassie: I don't know. We might have just lost all our followers. 

Host - Eric: Well, unless of course they're stuck in the nineties, we 

Host - Taylor: might be okay.

Yeah. I am stuck in the nineties, man. I'm a, I'm a nineties baby, so let's go. There you go. But it is a very relevant song because we are always stuck in our heads when it comes to just navigating life on life's terms, that's for sure. Right? Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yeah, and it's pretty wild because there's a lot of things that.

Get me stuck in my head when I'm going through life sober and trying to figure out who I am and how I'm gonna interact with the world. And there's all these things that just are continuing to go on around me, and I now have to almost go through them for the first time [00:02:00] all over again. And the mental jumping jacks I play with myself are, wait, I play with myself?

Um, 

Host - Eric: wait a minute. Can you say that? Can you say that? Uh, take that 

Host - Taylor: out. Wait, I think I checked the explicit content button before. Okay. We're good. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're good. We're 

Guest Host - Cassie: good. Good, good, good. All right. I think for me, like when I'm in my head, it's all, it's like running through to-do lists and like trying to organize chaos in my brain all the time.

And then on top of that, like just my narrative that happens in the back, like it's just escape. Can't escape it. Constant. Yeah. 

Host - Taylor: Right. 

Host - Eric: A lot of my being in my head is worrying about the narrative that's in my head and how everybody else is going to deal with that narrative. Yeah. So I'm more caught up in worrying that, okay, well I need to do this right.

I need to that. Right. I need to say it this way or that way. And, and I get stuck in there cuz I, I, I'm worried that everybody else is [00:03:00] focusing on me and nothing else. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah. Right. It's almost like we create this dialogue inside of our heads where the anticipation of going into an event or a scenario, or interacting with the world, especially now that we no longer have the safety net of our addiction directly in our hands or around us, we now have to be like, fuck, how are they gonna respond to this?

How are they gonna respond to me? How am I going to be able to put up with this? Right. Yeah.

So like when we get into the first time of doing something, I think like a good question for all of us is what's the last thing you did for the first time? For the 

Guest Host - Cassie: first time as sober? 

Host - Taylor: Sure. 

Host - Eric: Okay. Mine happened actually last summer. Ooh. I went to a concert by myself [00:04:00] and I had not been to a concert since I had gotten sober and I was supposed to go with my cousin, and that kind of fell through and it fell through at the last minute.

So I'm driving to the concert, realizing I'm going by myself. And it was interesting because I got to watch and I hung out with people that were around me. We were having a great time at the show and I watched all these people spend most of their time walking back and forth to the beer stands, and I thought, wow, I don't have to do that anymore.

And I can just enjoy this show and know that I can get in my car at 12 o'clock at night and drive home and not have to worry about a damn thing. 

Host - Taylor: It's like a life hack. Yeah, 

Host - Eric: it is. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Isn't that the best when you realize you can just get in your car and drive at any time of the day? 

Host - Eric: Yeah, 

Host - Taylor: absolutely. Oh, fuck.

Wait, we can, yep. What? There's benefits coming fucking thing. But you can, that's really cool though. I mean, and so like since then you, you don't think that there's anything else that you've done for the first [00:05:00] time? It's been that long since you've done something for the first time. 

Host - Eric: But that was last summer.

I mean, whatever. No, everything else I've already experienced before, so the holidays have experience before hanging out with friends I've experienced before, you know, uh, going, actually going into a bar with people, I've experienced that before. I'm not suggesting that we should all be doing that, but there.

There came a point where I was able to do that, and I've done that a couple of times. So, and that hasn't been a problem, you know, so I can't think of anything since then. That was the very first time that I'd done a first 

Host - Taylor: in recovery. What about things that you had not done before, even before recovery or in your life in general, is was the last thing that you did for the first time?

Uh, in regards to that? In just in life, like, you know, like before sobriety or after sobriety? Going skydiving for the first time is still a first time in general. I jumped off a building now [00:06:00] wait a minute, with safety nets, right? Like, Jesus, well, yeah, 

Host - Eric: yeah, yeah, yeah. The tallest building, Las Vegas allows you to, for a ca uh, a pricey fee allows you to jump off the tallest building and have that experience.

Host - Taylor: Actually, I think, uh, we discussed this actually a, a couple episodes ago. You kind of briefly brought it up, but yeah, that's actually a really good example. For sure. And that 

Host - Eric: was one of those things where I didn't think a lot about it. I just agreed to it. And I always joked that if I would've thought about it, I probably wouldn't, wouldn't have done it.

It was honestly a great experience and a great rush to do that and to do that four months sober. It kind of was that moment for me where I was just like, see, right now I can really do some 

Host - Taylor: things, you know? Right. Yeah, definitely. What about you, Cass? I was 

Guest Host - Cassie: just gonna say that's a big no for me. I am gonna stay on the ground.

You know, the, there's two things that come to mind. One, a lot of the stuff I'm doing in school right now, I'm doing for the first time, like the [00:07:00] skills I'm practicing, knowledge I'm gaining, all of that is very new to me and it's scary. Uh, like I'm gonna be going into ob gyn clinicals here real soon where I'm gonna help birth the baby, and that's like brand new kind of stuff.

So that's the first thing that came to mind. But then the second thing is like, And then you said, well it was that long ago that you had a first time. And I'm like, well, crap. Because I was thinking I made it through my wedding sober and that was a big first for me cuz I had never gotten married before.

Right, yeah. Nor hadn't done it sober. So that was another big like life event thing that I was thinking about that I had done for the first time 

Host - Taylor: recently. Yeah. That's cool. And I'm really glad that, um, Eric has done podcasting before, according to his stories. Uh, cause my first time. My, my last first time was actually starting a podcast and apparently I did it by myself.

I don't know. I, 

Guest Host - Cassie: I mean, I guess that's true for all of us. 

Host - Taylor: It doesn't have to be the [00:08:00] last first thing that you did. I mean, obviously we're only talking about things that were important to us, right? Like they're the first thing that comes to our minds. So obviously those were important things and for me, I just was like, wait, when was, what was the last thing?

And for me, it's this podcast. And I know for you, Eric, too, that was your first time ever recording that. I mean, I was 

Host - Eric: thinking more in terms of like, God, this is gonna sound bad, but I was thinking more in terms of like fun events. Like, like things I did on vacation type things or go to a concert. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Well, that makes 

Host - Eric: sense though.

I mean, starting a podcast, starting a business, I did both of those in the last six months, so sober and I'd never done that before. So You're right. And those are important things. Absolutely. 

Host - Taylor: But we have to take 'em into consideration. Right? Like, I like that you actually even just said like you were immediately jumping to only the fun side of things, but we have to count our assets of things that we've done for the first time that are not necessarily fun from our perspective.

Even if it's a podcast with me that now really sad about, appreciate [00:09:00] it. No. So anyways, for me, I, like I said, uh, the podcast that was kind of a big. I also started up my business as well and oh yeah, 

Guest Host - Cassie: I guess that's for me too, cuz I'm also a co-owner in that business. 

Host - Taylor: You know what, I'm just gonna go fuck myself guys.

Uh, cause apparently all of my firsts are just not important to either one of you. So, hey, I said our 

Guest Host - Cassie: wedding, that's pretty important. 

Host - Taylor: You are correct. Yeah. And that was a huge deal. I, that's something that like you fantasize about, even me as a guy, I don't know why it's a social norm that we don't fantasize about that stuff, but I fucking did and I'll be the first guy to raise my hand and say that I did.

Yeah. It was scary and so exciting and just such a crazy and wild experience of going through these things that we've actually come to learn and define as first fucking times fft. Is the fun term we use to describe the things that we're starting to talk about. And this is actually our [00:10:00] topic for today.

So using our wedding as a one of many examples, that was something that the buildup verse, the reality and the utilization of tools available to me paints the picture of this entire discussion today. And instead of talking about all of those things right off the bat, this sets the stage for the different types of first fucking times we go through.

And a lot of them are, are things that we've already gone through in our lives, but haven't gone through sober. So it's almost like a learning how to crawl, walk, run scenario. Yeah. And then the process that we go through when we're approaching the event, building it up inside our minds, setting those expectations, and then exploring what the realities are.

And what actually happens, how they actually engage with us in the experiences and then the tools that we can use to [00:11:00] benefit us as we experience these new things that we've done before. And then also these new, new things that we've never done before. Yeah. I think it's 

Host - Eric: important for us and when we think in terms of the new person in recovery, uh, and being able to share with them the importance of, of having those firsts, but also knowing that you can get through them and that honestly they can be not only a first in recovery, but also they can become a big fucking fun time.

You know? And, and this is something I think in, in early recovery, we don't recognize that cuz we're so worried about everything else, right? We're so worried about getting offered a drink. We're so worried about people talking about us. We're so worried about people looking and pointing, right? We think we're the center of everybody else's universe.

Not only ours, but everybody else's. And so we are filled sometimes with the anxiety about going to these things and in reality [00:12:00] turns out great. 

Host - Taylor: And so let's pick a couple of them that we all can think of to explore more on just honing in on the buildup and the expectation and how that works inside of our brains.

Let's start there. For 

Guest Host - Cassie: me, like Eric was saying, it's a lot of what is everyone else gonna think about me when I go to this event or whatever it is. Yeah. And I'm not drinking. And the buildup and the anxiety that I had before a lot of those first fucking times was immense. A lot of it for me was like trying to overcome that anxiety to be able to get to the event itself, you know?

And I spent. I think a lot of time just anticipating how I was gonna get through it sober, struggling with my anxiety around the event, and I was like playing mental tug of war in my brain a [00:13:00] lot, uh, with how I was going to manage it. And I think one of the, like events for me that comes to mind is the first concert that I went to sober.

I know Eric, you had said that, and the month leading up to that event, I mean, I was like fresh, freshly sober. Right. I think the concert ended up being like one or two days away from my 30 days. Oof. Hmm. So it was really early on in my recovery that I went to that concert. So I was constantly thinking about not drinking in combination with, holy crap, how am I gonna go do this?

Wow. Yeah. So I, I don't know, like for me it's just there's a lot of feelings that come around when it's building up. To that, to getting to that event. 

Host - Eric: Well, and I would've thought that, you know, just the fact that you were 30 days in, I mean, so much is going on at that point in, in recovery for everybody.

We're trying to manage our, you know, I don't wanna drink, I [00:14:00] don't, I just don't wanna drink. I don't wanna, you know, what, what happens if they outright we're going through the, all that, like, Taylor likes to say mental gymnastics of how to deal with that. If that get a got got asked, i, I give you a lot of credit for going to a concert 30 days into recovery.

That's, Ooh, pretty amazing. Yeah. And you're here to tell the story. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Yep. It might have been off, been the best idea, but I made it and it all went fine. 

Host - Eric: But like it in hindsight, yeah, maybe it wasn't a best idea. Hindsight is 2020. Yes, it is. I have one question for Cassie though. In terms of that concert, were you able to enjoy the concert?

Guest Host - Cassie: Oh, hell yeah. A hundred percent. I still remember the concert. I, yeah, I mean, it was an amazing time and I enjoyed. The hell outta myself. And it was actually kind of funny, just really, really tiny sidebar at that concert, there was a alcohol free mini bar set up. Nice. And so I ended up getting like an energy [00:15:00] drink, cocktail mix, Thur of whatever it was, but, and I was like, this is like a sign from the universe right now.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, it 

Host - Taylor: was a great time. Yeah. And what was the band? That's my 

Guest Host - Cassie: question. Oh, it was a atmosphere. So it wasn't a band, it was more rap. 

Host - Taylor: Okay. But did the, do they, I think we talked about in a couple episodes ago, you weren't a part of it, but I did talk about your obsession with Pretty lights and that they also kind of have like a sober family.

And so I was thinking maybe it was that, one of those scenarios. But does Atmosphere have a sober family following that you know of? 

Guest Host - Cassie: I am not really sure, honestly, but I, I wouldn't be surprised if they, if he did or, or what, but as far as I know, no. Gotcha. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah.

Guest Host - Cassie: Do you two remember like before a big event, how that buildup phase and the expectations was for you? [00:16:00] 

Host - Eric: I went to a wedding and good, good friends of mine were getting married and, uh, people I worked with and I was very nervous about how that was going to work. When could I sneak out of there? Like, that was one of the first thoughts in my head, you know, what was I gonna do when the liquor really started flowing?

It's very interesting when you are sober to watch somebody kind of go over the cliff with their drinking. Yep. And there just comes this moment where you like realize they're gone. That any semblance of an actual conversation that's gonna be remembered by that person is over. Yep. Yep. And, 

Host - Taylor: And now it's just like I'm a bobblehead over here.

Host - Eric: And now it's just like, all right, so I guess I should make it about the weather now cuz we're not gonna remember any of this. Or I'll tell 'em some sort of conspiracy theory, you know? I don't know if you've all experienced that, but that's a weird place to be when somebody just like you watched them just go right over the edge [00:17:00] and like, ah, that used to be me.

Let me see how that goes. 

Host - Taylor: You gain a very different perspective on the entire scenario. There's a reason why they're always encouraging you to drink with them. Yeah, well, yeah. They don't want you to remember the same way that they're not going to remember and they don't want to. Right. Relive any of that.

That's why when you have the videos of the morning after, they're shaking their head in shame and going, oh my gosh, what did I do? What did I do? What did I do? Right? And then they continue to do it over again. But there was a lot of 

Host - Eric: apprehension in that whole process of getting ready for the wedding. I, and I remember even feeling weird when I was there, cuz I thought, I'm not going to, like, there was this weird feeling.

Um, and I think a lot of it was, um, due to the fact that I knew I wasn't going to be partaking in what the typical wedding atmosphere is, you know, which is you go to the wedding, you get to the reception, and then the drinking commences and everybody goes crazy. And right then we're [00:18:00] talking about stories of people dancing on tables and you know, in my wedding, I passed out at the end of the wedding, so I didn't even remember it, you know, which is sad, you know, when I look back at that, that that one experience was like that.

So, That buildup to all of that was, and how am I gonna manage through that? That was certainly on 

Host - Taylor: my mind. Yeah. So I was trying to think of like, what another one for me was, cuz you know, we've all talked about weddings and I love it because weddings is a big one. It's a really, it's a big deal. And I had in my first 30 days, a lot of first fucking times that I've talked about over some episodes with my friend committing suicide.

That's a big first time I've had suicide. Um, friends commit suicide when I was in my drinking phase. And my responses to that were to honor them by drinking more. Yeah. And responding that way. And, and then in the sober side of [00:19:00] things, it's a very different response. You're so fresh in the world of recovery, being in your first 30 days that you kind of don't have a response, it's you're still trying to develop neuro pathways to have feelings again.

So there's that one, and nothing could have prepared me for that. But then there's my birthday and then the day after, my birthday is the 4th of July, and all of that was in 27 days. So you're also first time going to recovery meetings? Yep. I had actually been to those before I got into the world of recovery as an eye opener for me getting caught with alcohol and my parents' house when I was a teenager.

Huh. Been there. My requirement was to attend an AA meeting and I went there under the impression that this was a punishment and that anything that anybody says here, they're nuts and they're crazy and I don't need to listen to this, but. It was kind of a good prelude to a first [00:20:00] time then when I was sober and all of the stories all of a sudden made a lot of sense.

And it actually showed me the shift in perspective, which was nice and rewarding. But I wanted to kind of go in a different direction for my experience, which was experiencing something for the first time and then realizing that I wasn't gonna get it back. And why I wanted to bring that up is because that's just another layer to all of this in terms of the buildup and the expectation is the fear that exists when you start to get sober around going to the event thinking, oh fuck, I might not enjoy this anymore.

Like, I only know how to do this drunk. I still like to go out. What if I don't like to go out anymore once I'm here and I experience it? What if the concert wasn't that great? And I can no longer be a concert goer when I've lived half my life identifying as a concert goer. Where I've lived my half my life identifying as a bowler [00:21:00] and now all of a sudden I don't drink.

How the fuck am I supposed to bowl? Can you bowl sober? Yeah, exactly. And there's actually a community for it, but you don't think that going into it, and even if there is a sober community, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to like it anymore. And so dealing with the fears around that, I had to experience that with just generally going out.

I tried very hard to want to like to continue to go out because I'm an extrovert, but holy shit did I start identifying a whole lot more with my introverted side of I just wanna stay home. I don't wanna be in the chaos. Cuz every time I go out it tends to, it tends to end in disaster, especially after a certain time of the night.

But you wanna hold so hard onto the old ways. That you don't allow the opportunity for things to grow and change because that's [00:22:00] unknown and that's scary. And so in the buildup, in the expectation, it's like, oh fuck, I might not like this anymore. And that means I might need to redefine more of myself a lot faster than maybe some other people where they do go to the concert in their first 30 days and they're like, no, that was amazing.

That's still amazing. Whew. Thank 

Guest Host - Cassie: God. I really like that you brought that up, tey, because I think a lot of us are like, and correct me if I'm wrong, but for me it was like, oh, who am I? Because a lot of my existence was drinking and going out and being hammered. And so when I got sober, I was like, who is Cassie?

Like who is she? What does she like to do? And I like that you brought that up a little bit because it's. It is one of those things where you're kind of holding on to what it life used to be like when you were drinking and you were going out to the bars or the clubs or whatever you were doing, [00:23:00] and you feel like you might lose that part of yourself, you might lose those friends or you might lose that love that you built for that band that you went to travel around the world to see, or whatever it is.

And it's scary. But I think unless you go out and actually start trying the things, you'll never really know if you still like them or not. Like for me, I used to be a really big football watcher and I would spend Sundays drinking and watching football well in recovery. I don't really watch football anymore, and that's okay.

I like, it's fine with me. I'm still a fan. I just don't spend my days at the bar watching football, drinking beer. And I think just figuring out that, okay, I'm okay with not liking that as much anymore and I've replaced it with these other hobbies that I really love to do. And I think it's all about that [00:24:00] expectation of what you were saying.

It's going in and am I gonna like this? Is it gonna go okay? And then, you know, you never really are gonna find that out unless you try it. And 

Host - Taylor: I like how you brought up football because I've actually talked with people in sobriety or who are on the fence about getting sober and their deal breaker of telling me why that they weren't going to stay sober anymore.

Was because of the fact that when they got sober, they didn't like football anymore. They loved football more than their sobriety and their ability and their desire to change themselves. Which is fine. Does that sound like How dare they? Yeah. In the context we're painting it in right now. Ooh, how dare they?

But in all actuality, that's a lot of people, whether it's said out loud or implied, and that's not the end of the world, but identifying that, what's your deal breaker in this? Right? Like, oh fuck are, how far are you willing to go when we say you have to go to any lengths? You didn't [00:25:00] realize that your love for football was on the table for negotiation.

Host - Eric: Right. Football for me became very different. Like my experience at the, at the stadium became very different in what it used to be. I learned to like hot chocolate 

Host - Taylor: a. Oh yeah. Yep. Because you still wanna drink something, you still wanna have something in your hand, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Host - Eric: And it warmed me up a lot more than a beer did.

You know? So I started to run while like, whoa, I should have been drinking hot chocolate all along, know. Yep. It was just a different experience. It it, like, I was more into what was going on. I was paying attention more to what was happening around me, uh, and certainly what was happening in the game, which was very different to my experiences when I was drinking.

So, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, and, and I think that's also part of it, right? You know, and you all hit on it was the idea of, uh, am I gonna still like this? I mean, I'm, I'm building this all up, but when I get there, am I still gonna like it? Or was it the drinking that made it fun? Yeah. You know, I mean, I've heard people in [00:26:00] recovery talk about they can't go camping anymore because camping was all 

Host - Taylor: about drinking.

Drinking. Yeah, that's right. Or going fishing. Right. Yeah. And then also the company that you keep too. It's like, was this person ever actually my friend, oh fuck, do I gotta find a new Becky who's gonna take Becky's role on Becky's drunk? By the way, everyone knows, uh, I'm kidding. I'm sorry if your name's Becky.

Right? But you know what I'm saying is I gotta go find a new best friend too. Holy shit. How much is this gonna demand outta me? Because Becky only liked to drink with me. Mine was Justin mine, that, that's my version of Becky was my, my buddy Justin was my drinking buddy. And you know, we had a falling out, but it actually had nothing to do with sobriety.

But it had a lot to do with the things that we engaged in on a regular basis. And through that, when I no longer participated in those things, and he still did, I realized how much of just a going out buddy he was, and nothing more. There [00:27:00] wasn't anything really deeper than that. And that's also another layer, another challenge in this.

And then once you start to move and migrate into the world of sobriety, it's like you start worrying about, well, fuck, he doesn't want to hang out with me anymore because I don't drink. Who else doesn't want to hang out with me anymore because I don't drink? Does everybody think this way? Oh shit, I'm gonna be alone.

There's no answer to this. What is the reality of what actually happens once we get sober and how people respond to us verse what we think is going to happen? 

Host - Eric: I think that leads into the idea that a lot of us are stuck in this belief that we are the star of the show. Ah, and that everybody's paying attention just to us.

That all their attention, all their time and energy, regardless of where they're at, are focusing on us. And when we walk through the door, until we leave. They're [00:28:00] completely focused on everything we're doing. 

Host - Taylor: I'm not much, but I am. All I think about That's, 

Guest Host - Cassie: yeah, I'm pretty sure I said like what the last episode I came on that we think the world revolves around us.

Something like that. Yeah. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah. And why won't they call me? Yeah. Wait, I didn't call them. Why would they call me? Right. They're not calling me either. Right. 

Host - Eric: But that shows up right in pretty much all aspects of our, of our recovery, because that's who we were in our addiction, whether we believed that or not.

Cause I know I didn't. In my addiction, I thought everything was being done to me. And for me, in reality, I thought I was a center of attention. And if I wasn't getting the amount of attention I wanted, then that was a bad 

Host - Taylor: thing. Well, and we would change our story to become the center of attention depending on who we were engaging with.

If I had to play the victim's card, I was the victim. And what was me? And let me tell you, all my struggles, if I was playing the hero [00:29:00] card, it was still about me. I helped this person today, praise me. And at the end of the day, we're not listening to anybody else in what they're saying and we're not focusing on the football game and the other people that are enjoying it and we're not focusing on the wedding and the beauty of marriage and the experience of the atmosphere that is created from all of that, we're focusing on are they gonna ask me about my drinking?

Oh fuck. They just realize that the cup inside my hand is not alcohol, even though they're not close enough to smell it. Many non-alcoholic drinks are colored the same way as alcoholic ones. And a red solo cup is still a red solo cup. So like we decide that people give a fuck. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Yeah, right. Well I was just thinking like, and maybe, I don't know if they do really care or not, and we'll get into that, but.

My thoughts were like, everyone is going to notice that I'm not drinking [00:30:00] because I've shown up to how many events in the past, drunk drinking, doing whatever, partaking Everyone else is still partaking. And now I've stepped outta that and I'm not partaking anymore. Everyone's gonna notice they're gonna ask me questions.

What the heck do I even say, you know, do I come out and say I have a problem? I don't know. Um, or do I make up some excuse? That's probably a whole nother episode topic we could go down, but it was just me overanalyzing how everyone else is going to react to me not drinking. And I don't know if they truly care or not, but I felt like I was going to be the talk of the party or wherever I was, you know?

And I like built that up so much in my head that it was like, I am the center of this topic when I'm really not, but 

Host - Taylor: Right. Everybody [00:31:00] thinks that everybody knows about everybody else, but nobody knows anything about themselves because they're all worried about everybody else. That's a quote from Jack Johnson, and it relates so much to what we're talking about here on people Think, or I think that people are going to care about the fact that I'm not drinking, when in all actuality they're worried about their own presentation, they're worried about how they're showing up, and they're not even worried about what you're currently doing.

I think 

Guest Host - Cassie: it's partly because we're stepping away and we're doing something so different than what is normalized in our society and in our culture, that I think it adds this whole other layer of, you know, because I'm doing something that's different. That's why I think it's gonna be this big deal. At least that's kind of the way I think about it a little bit is like, you know, being sober.

It, it is getting a little bit more popular. But, [00:32:00] you know, for me, when I first quit drinking, it was like, oh, is this, you know, this is different. This is new. People aren't used to me being sober. And, and so it added this whole other layer of like, well, no wonder I'm so in my head about it. And the 

Host - Taylor: one thing I actually wanted to hit on more specifically when I said born from our addiction was the building of fantasies inside of our heads and the narratives we tell ourselves about the world around us while we drink at the bar, we're fantasizing about our futures and what we think that we're going to do and we're going to achieve.

The unhealthiness factor is that we never left the bar and now we're sober. And we're almost still sitting at the bar, and we're fantasizing the same way that we did because we're not doing anything positive or productive for our journey. And so the fantasies are still [00:33:00] manifesting and they're still being created.

But the fantasy has changed. The fantasy is anticipation. Anticipation of what people are gonna do, think, say whatever, but they're still just as wrong as the fantasy that we are saying we are gonna achieve in our lives. That fantasy's never gonna fucking happen when we're actively drinking. We're only gonna stay at the bar, not achievable.

Same can be said about the fantasy we're creating, about what are people gonna say? How are people gonna react? I'm sorry. It's probably not going to happen. That's not gonna be the reality. I think 

Host - Eric: also we're living in our old ways as well. I, I kind of believe that the possibility exists out there, that the other part is that we truly deep down want people.

To focus on us. Want people to say, Hey, wait, how come you're not drinking today? I mean, as much as we are anxious about it and we don't wanna keep explaining it, there's a part of us that want to relish the fact that everybody's focused on the fact that I'm not drinking, so therefore I'm still the center of [00:34:00] attention.

Yeah. I'm still important in my own little 

Host - Taylor: fishbowl. Well, you do get that person that makes a dramatic change in their life and they go in like one of two directions. They go in the, you know, hey, like this is a change. I'm gonna hold it close to heart and I'm gonna live it in my life and, and this is the way it's gonna be.

And then you have this extreme other person that's like, I'm sober. You're getting sober. Everybody's getting sober. You all get to get sober together. And I'm not gonna shut up until you listen to everything I have to say. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk today. You were invited and I'm glad you showed up.

You didn't know you were coming, but thanks for being here. Yeah. 

Guest Host - Cassie: I feel like that was a personal attack. No, I'm just kidding. 

Host - Taylor: I mean, to me 

Guest Host - Cassie: too, the only reason I like even went, went there though, is because I literally like got out of the hospital day one and posted on social media. I'm gonna be sober and I'm looking for supportive people and blah da da.

And you know, a lot of people do not do that. But I was like, I'm telling [00:35:00] 

Host - Taylor: everyone, and it's not a bad thing. It's something to poke fun at and we should be lighthearted in poking fun at it. Right? 

Guest Host - Cassie: All that being said, the reality of the situations, right? The reality of the events. How did those turn out, right?

Like that's Eric Taylor for you. How did it go? You built up all this stuff in your head. We're in our heads constantly about how everything's gonna go, but talk to us. What some of those events actually looked 

Host - Eric: like. Well, with the wedding, you know, so I had built it all up in my head. I, I wasn't sure how it was gonna work out and everything else.

First off, it wasn't perfect. I mean, there were certainly things that made me feel uncomfortable. There was a guy that was sitting next to me that I work with who proceeded to go right off that cliff that I talked about and then disappeared. And the story was, he was sitting outside, he would go to the bar and he would go sit outside and drink.

So again, isolation, all that stuff. So I'm seeing all these things, but when I [00:36:00] made the choice to leave, and that was my concern, I was like, well, when do you leave a wedding? When, when do you leave where nobody's upset with you? And I was thinking in terms of like the couple that I was there for, that I, you know, was friendly with.

And when I went up to say my goodbye, which was, you know, earlier than everybody else, Well, I was lucky cuz they knew that I was not drinking. Mm-hmm. They didn't know all the details, but they knew I wasn't drinking, so they were supportive of, of me. And I just said, you know, I, I'm gonna head home. Uh, it's been a long, I think it was a Friday evening wedding, so I was like, I, you know, I'm gonna head home.

It's like an hour drive or so, and I, I need to get home. And they're like, oh, okay. All right, well, we'll talk. We'll see you on Monday. We'll talk on Monday. You know, so it wasn't, it turned out as I got in my car, it was not a big deal. Yeah. It, it, it turned out perfect. The other part of it was I realized I could make my own decisions as to when to leave and when to kind of get away from certain situations without somebody focused on me.

Well, what are you doing? Well, where are you going? Well, [00:37:00] how come you're not drinking a champagne? Well, how come you're not doing this? I was just another person in the room. Mm-hmm. And that was good by 

Host - Taylor: me and for me, I was really big in my early sobriety journey. My ego was telling me a lot of, you're not gonna end up like other people in recovery because I had already defined them.

But you're not going to end up like them where you hear these stories. I'm not going back there. I'm not doing any of that again. I'm changed now I'm different, blah, blah, blah. I was like, no, I don't wanna change. I wanna still be able to go out. I want to be able to go on cruises. I want to be able to go to concerts and I want to be able to do them quick.

And it took my sponsor reeling me in a little bit and saying, okay, let's get there. Let's work towards that. Let's not jump into the deep end and just start going to those things. I promise you. Like you'll be able to explore them, but slow down. Take your time. And I listened to him longer than I would've listened if I didn't have anybody.[00:38:00] 

I still had to be in control and that's okay. But in going out, I have learned, and this wasn't necessarily something in one fell swoop that fuck, I do get mad at people that go a little bit too hard drinking. And they do fucking irritate me now. And I wish they didn't cuz I used to have so much more tolerance for them and now I have none.

And actually it didn't start out as none. It grew to none. When I first got sober I was like, I am so cool. I like this. This is great. You know, it's like when you're in high school and you're like trying to figure out what clique you're gonna be a part of. So you just take on their personalities for a while, wear it around and you're like, ugh, no, I don't like this personality.

I'm going over here. That's what you do in sobriety is you start trying on all these other personalities again. But it's already things that you've played a, you've already been in the performance before. And for me it was going out and I was like, I can still wear the clothes of the guy [00:39:00] that likes hearing.

You know, that guy. Tell his fucking, you know, Eric tell his story all over again for the seventh time this evening while slowly starting to fall out of his chair. And I can stay until after 11 o'clock at night, and I can have those deep conversations at two in the morning still, even though they're not really that deep.

And you just sit there shaking your head, almost giving yourself a fucking neck strain because of the level of stupidity happening around you. But those things didn't stay the same for me. And that's okay. And the reality is I had to learn the fact that I just didn't like this anymore. I didn't wanna participate in it.

And also the reality was no one gave a fuck that I wasn't drinking. No one cared when I ended up leaving early. And I slowly got better and more comfortable through going to those things, [00:40:00] even after realizing that I didn't like them. But continuing to participate in societal things like holidays, vacations.

And things that I can't change that are still gonna come up. No matter what I do, I can control going out. I can't control a holiday coming up and everybody being at home. So while I have to deal with those things that come up, the realities are like this last Mardi Gras. Do you know how many people talked about Mardi Gras the day after?

The same amount that have always talked about Mardi Gras the day after. The only difference is you didn't have the story of, yeah, I feel sick today. Just like that's the only thing you can't relate to compared to them. You might have a little bit of FOMO in the beginning, fear of missing out, which is another whole thing with the FFT part of this, which we can definitely talk about.

But the reality is no one cared that you weren't necessarily there. The most worst part of it might be that they might [00:41:00] say, oh man, you know, you really missed it last night, but you and I both know that you didn't really miss much. 

Guest Host - Cassie: I mean, I would agree. I think that we kind of alluded to this, a lot of people are wrapped up in their own stuff, right?

We are all collectively probably thinking about our own shit. So when us, the sober people enter the room and leave, the other people might not even notice. You know? And Eric, you were kind of talking about how you were worried if you had spent enough time at the wedding and you know, that kind of thing.

And I'm sitting there thinking, Taylor and I were so busy as the couple that we had no clue what other people were doing. 

Host - Taylor: I had no idea who stayed till the end. 

Guest Host - Cassie: No. Like we, because you know, you're just getting pulled in so many different directions. So it's, it's just one of those things where you go in and you're like, it's gonna be all eyes on me.

And then I, I, I feel [00:42:00] like for me, that's never the case. Now my friends are used to me just leaving early and. Dipping out when it's time for me to go, they, they even know, like now sometimes I'll go to, like, we played poker last weekend. People are starting to get rowdy. They're starting to get a little more buzzed and starting to get loud and people are falling over.

And I'm, one of my friends looked at me and was like, I think that's your cue. And I was like, you're right. I'm out of here. You know? And so people just get used to it now for me. But yeah, it's reality of the situations or the scenarios. Like I said, the concert that I went to, it was incredible. Now that's like one of my, you know, when I have the money and I can afford to go, that's one of my favorite things to do because I can remember and witness and be present for all of that awesome music that is happening in front of me.

Whereas, you know, we mentioned Pretty Lights earlier. The last pretty Lights show that has ever been done. I was there, do I remember any of it? Absolutely [00:43:00] not. Cuz I was hammered. And so that's just one of the beautiful things about how these scenarios can play out. We go to the event and it's awesome.

Sometimes that's not the case, you know, sometimes it isn't our thing anymore, and that's fine too. And then we realize, okay, maybe going out isn't my thing anymore, and that's fine and I find something else that I wanna do, and I go try that new thing for the first time. 

Host - Taylor: We remain curious and that helps our sobriety stay strong, is to remain curious, right?

And open to allowing ourselves to experience new things. And I think that's that. That's awesome. Yeah. And I would just 

Host - Eric: say to people that are sitting there listening and they're in the early days of recovery and they're thinking, well, you know, you're making it sound like it's easy and all this other stuff.

First off, it's not easy. We're not gonna say that it is. There's a lot that goes into that. [00:44:00] Anxiety process that we all go through before we go. But I would also say one of the things that was a real benefit to me, and it sounds like all three of us kind of have this, is the fact that the people in my social group know that I'm in recovery.

They know I'm not drinking, and they're supportive of that. So just like Cassie, you were just saying how a friend looked at you and said, oh, there's your cue. Yeah. And it was somewhat in a joking way, but because they know you and they know what's going on with you and nobody cares, it's like, fine, you know that she leaves early, that's not a big deal.

Yep. I think that many of us that are in early recovery, we're still building that. We're still building those people around us that are gonna know us and be there for us. But I, I, I can tell you from my own experience that that is so helpful. To have people that, that know you and, and understand why you're making the, the decision you're making.[00:45:00] 

Guest Host - Cassie: And I think that kind of leads us into the tools part of it, right? Like we talked about the buildup, we talked about the reality, how these situations can turn out. What did we do to get ourselves through that scenario? And we talked about the accountability piece, which is like, have the people that you want to be informed.

Informed, or maybe you don't even maybe just have one person at the event who knows, right. Or whatever it is. Right? For me, the biggest one was like the escape plan. Like I had to have an exit. I had to drive myself, make sure I knew when, when I was gonna leave. It made it a little bit easier, right? You kind of have to know, okay, at this point of the night I'm gonna duck out or I'm gonna leave at eight, or I'm gonna try and stay till the end.

But if I get uncomfortable in any sort of way and I'm gonna, you know, identify those [00:46:00] feelings beforehand, then that's my cue to leave. 

Host - Taylor: Isn't that just dating for women 1 0 1? 

Guest Host - Cassie: Probably. I dunno, 

Host - Taylor: I don't You guys have like a friend on standby waiting to call your phone. Yeah. Once you go to the bathroom. 

Guest Host - Cassie: I mean, I never did that, but I've heard of a lot of people doing that.

Ah-huh. Yeah. I, I really never did, but I've, I've definitely heard of that being used. But yeah, for me it was a lot of making sure I knew how I was going to get home. I never rode with other people anymore because I was like, especially if they were gonna be drinking. Cause I was like, you know what? I don't wanna be at the air Becking call.

I wanna be able to leave when I wanna leave. So I drive myself. And I make sure that I have some sort of exit plan, no matter what the event is, even if it's a Christmas in my own house. If I need to get out of that house, I'm gonna go for a walk. What? You know? So the exit plan can be different depending on the situation.

So that's 

Host - Taylor: one of my tools. [00:47:00] Right. And taking your ego out of it to say, this is my house. I shouldn't have to be the one No. Fucking if, how important is your sobriety? That should be the first question. Fuck your ego. Yeah. Know, it's like, yeah, it's your house, but go take a walk because obviously this is triggering for you.

Right. Well, and I like 

Host - Eric: the fact that you brought up, uh, the idea of driving yourself and it, which means, a, you don't ride with somebody else, and B, you do not drive other people because when that happens in your stock, right, right. So you wanna be capable of getting in your car with nobody else and leav.

And, and I think where a lot of us make mistakes, especially because we're all kind of creatures of habit. We've gone to these parties or we've gone to these concerts with people, right? Like we're in the car together. Mm-hmm. And one person drives and pays the fee and we all chip in. Right Now that's not necessarily, unless we're going with a bunch of sober friends, then maybe that's a little bit different.

Right? But certainly if we're going with a mixed bag of people that are still drinking, that could be difficult [00:48:00] for us. So I like 

Host - Taylor: that you brought that up. Yeah. And I think it's really important to say, I kind of brought it up a little bit earlier, but in this tools section, exploring and acknowledging the fact that when we do leave early, we, in, especially in early recovery, we feel like we're missing out whether or not we go to the event.

Right? Like we've already identified maybe some events that we know for a fact we don't like anymore and we can't go to. But that still sucks. Yeah. We still. Have this fear of missing out on the show, on missing out on the thing. Like, I've hit every single Mardi Gras for the last 20 years. This is the first time I'm not gonna go because I know that it's going to trigger me into drinking again.

Fuck. I'm still feeling like I'm gonna miss out. And even though I know no one's gonna remember tomorrow, and even though I know that I'm really not missing much, and I could tell you exactly what was gonna happen, it doesn't matter. I still am sad that I'm missing this. And that is just a reality of sobering up, that it's almost one of those things that there is no trick.

[00:49:00] It's you just gotta go through it. And some of those days in recovery are just going to fucking suck. And I could sit here and try and rainbows and butterfly that one too, or I can just be straight up with you and say, yeah, no, that one's gonna fucking blow. Sorry. And um, if somebody has a better tip for fomo, I'm sure there's tips out there.

But the reality is for Taylor is I could sugar coat it for you. Or I could just say, yeah, that one's gonna fucking suck. And there's just some things where we gotta put on our big kid pants and just say, I'm gonna have this fear. It is going to suck. But the longer I stay on the path that I know I want to be on long term, and the longer and the, the more I focus on my end goal and worry about how I identify myself and keep focusing on these boundaries I've built and the honesty I've developed, I know that this is worth way more than going back to that cuz I've already walked that road enough times and I don't need to go there anymore.

So in [00:50:00] all of that, my tool for this is that plan. Having a plan in place, being accountable to somebody. You don't need to be accountable to the bride and groom if they're the ones that you think might have issues with recovery. Cuz that's a whole other thing about going through this. There are some people that do exist.

Even though we said the reality of this is that people aren't gonna care, there is gonna be somebody that does care. And the reason why they care is because they might be insecure about their drinking. And like I said, they want you to drink with them. And so they're gonna peer pressure the shit outta you.

And that person is very dangerous. So you will have to be prepared to handle the person that isn't going to just accept you being sober. And you do need to develop those defense strategies. The armor I wear is the level of recovery I participate in, and that is how strong my armor is. And so when I go to these events, [00:51:00] when I make myself vulnerable or exposed, it's like getting on the internet and commenting on a forum, be prepared for a different level of stupid to smack you in the face that you're gonna have to adhere to, that you weren't ready to adhere to.

But in that, Know that the majority of people are just gonna be accepting and tolerant. And when you are accountable, you don't have to go to the bride and groom of the, of the, of the show, the main event. You can just tell your secret best friend. You can just tell your sponsor. You can just confide in somebody very, very close to you that you feel like is going to hold you accountable.

So that's my tool in all of this. Love 

Guest Host - Cassie: it. And I think too, yes, you, you will have those moments where people pressure you and whatever. And I, and I do think fear of missing out, I don't know if there's any tools that can help with that [00:52:00] really, but time and length of recovery. Because for me, when I was missing out on the parties in my early recovery days, I had a lot of fear of missing out.

Now I don't have any, and. I, I don't know what happened in between then and now that it changed, but I think just time and getting, getting more comfortable with not having to go to those things and accepting that that's just not part of my life anymore. Right. And I think with the plan, which I think is kind of where you were going, Taylor, you, you're gonna have the people who still offer you drinks and you're gonna have all of that stuff still when you go out into the real world and you're trying to do all these things sober.

And so I think the planning part of that is, you know, what is your actual defense in that moment? So when someone says, Hey Cassie, do you want a beer? What is my response? And just come and that, [00:53:00] and this looks different for everyone, so I don't think we need to go down a whole rabbit hole here, but I think we can just say, sit down with yourself and write a list of the reasons that you are okay with giving.

Is it because you're an alcoholic? That's mine and I'm fine with that. But not a lot of people are okay with just coming out and saying that, you know? So finding those words and phrases that are comfortable for you to be able to give back to that person in response. One of my responses with that is also just bringing my own drinks with me.

If I'm able to, of course I can't bring my own non-alcoholic beers or soda into the venue cuz they wanna sell me stuff. But if I'm going to a friend's house or whatever where I can bring those things, I'm just bringing my own drinks because that holds me accountable to staying sober. And when someone offers me something, nope, thanks.

I have my own, [00:54:00] you know? Um, so I think that goes in with your planning of how you get through that event. 

Host - Taylor: You know what's funny you said that is I actually went to a friend's wedding and I asked her way ahead of time cuz she knew I was sober. I was probably like 10 months sober at the time. I asked her if it would be okay if I brought a six pack of non alcoholics and uh, put them behind the bar and she's like, well, we have a bartender.

And I was like, well, can I still check with them? Because the assumption is exactly what you said and it's, guess what they allowed me to do it. The bartender, I don't know if they didn't drink or not or if they were just sympathetic towards it or whatever, but they allowed me to do it and I bought my own six pack and I only had like three of them while I was there.

And it helped me get through the event. And just the simple asking of it, even though I thought for sure, I assumed for sure that they were just gonna tell me no, they 100%. And every wedding I've been to, all of my friends have had non-alcoholic options readily available [00:55:00] for me at their weddings. Yep. And it's been a really awesome thing.

The last wedding I 

Host - Eric: went to, my buddy made sure and told the people that were gonna run the bar. I have a friend coming who does not drink. I wanted a non-alcoholic option for him. And, uh, they got, uh, Heineken double zero. So yeah. I mean, it is about asking Right. You just open your mouth and ask. A lot of times this stuff could be worked out.

Guest Host - Cassie: Key takeaways. If you don't ask, you'll never find out. And if you don't try the damn thing, you'll never know if you actually like it or not. Right. 

Host - Taylor: Which is why I became an addict. Okay. Sober things 

Guest Host - Cassie: to 

Host - Eric: clarify. 

Host - Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I totally hear what you're saying about cocaine. Yeah. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Yeah. No, no, no, no. None of that.

We don't, we don't endorse any of that. 

Host - Eric: I think this is a great episode. I, I'm glad that we're able to talk about. This type of thing that goes on for, for a lot of us in early sobriety and the realization that we can still have [00:56:00] fun and, and we can still go to these events. I mean, one thing I was gonna just add in terms of that I have found myself in recovery going to more things than what I did when I was active.

Yeah. You know, like more things are, are out there that I wanna do. Like concerts were not something I was doing when I was active. Now I'm going to concerts, you know, going on, on vacations, going hiking, doing all kinds of different things in my world and my life and being willing right. To, to drive and go places.

And like we have some hiking groups out here and people drive hour, you know, a couple hours sometimes to go on a hike. I would've never done that in addiction. So I, I really think one of the good things out of this too is it does open the door to bringing back a lot of things that maybe you put off or adding in new things that you've never done before, that you're like, oh wait, I kind of like 

Host - Taylor: bowling.

Right. A lot of us jump to the negative right away. So for the newcomer listening to this [00:57:00] episode, if you hone in on every door that gets shut early on in recovery, because I hate to break it to you, there's gonna be doors that get slammed shut on things that happen in life that you might not be able to participate in any anymore, at least for this moment in time.

Because everything's always changing. Well, you've gotta shift our perspective to all the other doors that we're not even looking at that we don't even know exist that are right around the corner waiting to be opened. And that's a good place to put your focus. If you don't know where to focus right now, put your focus on the door that you don't even know exists, and it's around the corner and it's a whole lot of opportunity.

And every door that's. In recovery. I promise you there's 15 others to take. Its place per door at least. Yeah, and on that note, we love you all. Thanks for listening. Yes, 

Host - Eric: woohoo. Hey, thank you all for listening to the show. We really appreciate it. 

Host - Taylor: Thank you so much for joining us today, and we [00:58:00] would not be here without you.

Host - Eric: New episodes Air every Friday morning. This show is available wherever you podcast. 

Host - Taylor: You can join the conversation throughout the week by following us on Instagram and TikTok by searching at sober the letter n Shameless. If you would like to be a guest on our show or would simply like to send us an email about this week's topic, then please email us@sobershamelessgmail.com.

You can find all these links and more in the show now. 

Guest Host - Cassie: Interested in supporting the show, then buy us a cup of coffee. That's a drink we can enjoy without regret. Just simply navigate to buy me a coffee.com/sober and shameless. That's S O B E R 

Host - Taylor: N S H A 

Guest Host - Cassie: N E L E S S, and you can give us a cup if you'd like.

We'll send you a sober and shameless sticker in the mail and post a photo on our Instagram thanking you for your support. [00:59:00] Woo, 

Host - Taylor: and finally 

Host - Eric: shed that shame. Don't forget to take care of yourself today. We love you and you are worth it. 

Host - Taylor: Coming in regular. Coming in hot.[01:00:00] [01:01:00]